They Shoot Wet Nurses, Don’t They?

Her name was Laura, and I nursed her baby.

We had met, initially, at breakfast and immediately hit it off. We sat down with our coffees and immediately got swept up in a conversation that ran the gamut from the advantages of Twitter over Facebook to the challenges of leaving one’s baby for a night. Which is precisely what I had done: I had left my baby to attend a symposium on parenting. And it was, as I told Laura over coffee, in some ways profoundly liberating, and in others completely terrifying. Also, my boobs hurt. Badly. I had forgotten my breast pump and an hour of hand-expressing in the shower that morning hadn’t helped much. I didn’t mention that part, though. I just said, I miss my baby.

She said, I know. Her own baby – a dark-haired sprite, just one year old – bounced happily on her knee. I would find it hard to leave her.

Yeah.

I liked her. I offered to help her sort out her Twitter/Facebook conundrum, and introduce her to some New York area bloggers. She invited me to a parenting event in Albany later in the month. We chatted throughout the day. The chirps and coos of her baby reminded me of my own chirping, cooing baby, who had accompanied me in the previous month to two conferences, who I was unaccustomed to being without, especially in this environment. My heart hurt, and my breasts ached. They ached. I kept my arms pressed against my chest for most of the morning.

At lunch I fled to my room and tried, unsuccessfully, to hand-express. I returned to the symposium, and sat down near Laura, and another woman that I had met that day. We were supposed to have a conversation about our parenting successes, or something like that. I said, you’ll have to count me out. I’m in a lot of pain and don’t know what to do. I huddled on the chair, squeezing the rock-hard contours of my chest as tightly as I could without screaming. I explained about the missing breast-pump, the terrible ache of my engorged breasts, the hours remaining before I would see my son. The other woman asked, is there a store nearby? I shook my head – the concierge had told me that there were no pharmacies in the immediate area. Laura cocked her head thoughtfully, and looked at her daughter, who was beginning to fuss. Would you consider, maybe… I know it sounds sorta weird, but… I have no problem with it, and she’s hungry… She looked at me, and waited.

Really?

Really.

I paused. My head spun, a little. Would I do this, really? Would it be weird? And then I thought, no. There’s nothing weird here. Boobs are boobs. Breastmilk is breastmilk, in all of its liquid gold glory. I bond with my son when we nurse, but it is not because he is latched to my breast. It is because I have him in my arms, and because I love him. Our intimacy derives from that love, and that love would be just as forceful if I fed him with a bottle. So would it be weird if someone else fed him from a bottle? No, of course not. These are only acts of nurture, whether they involve the bottle or the breast. And this is what the breast is made for.

I nodded, and reassured Laura that as a nursing mom I did not take any substances or medications that might compromise my milk.

And so. I took Laura’s daughter in my arms and she smiled at me and I lifted my shirt and she happily bent her head and drank her fill.

(Was it weird? No. It was different. Describing the thoughts and emotions that accompany nursing another woman’s child requires more space than I have here. It was intimate, but not inappropriately so – no more inappropriately intimate than someone holding your baby and cooing in his ear, whispering sweet baby nothings. If anything, it brought me to a deeper, more visceral understanding of my body as a miracle of biology, as a work of nature that is built to do certain things, one of those thing being – in my case; this is not necessarily true for every woman, and no woman is lesser for not being able to do it – nursing babies. My breasts are not sacred or magical objects, they are not quivers full of milk-arrows that can and must only be directed to blood-offspring. They provide milk. They nourish. They are both utterly mundane and terrifically awe-inspiring for that fact.)

I was grateful – so, so grateful – for Laura and her child; their generosity and open-mindedness and open-heartedness saved me a great deal of pain. At the end of the day, a mother was released from some considerable discomfort, and a child was nourished. Wonderful, no?

Well, as it happens: no. Not for everybody. Someone was watching, and someone did not like what they saw. Someone was watching and decided that what I had done was deviant. Irresponsible. Disgusting. Eww. So she wrote a post describing, in entirely misleading terms (we were total strangers! we had no discussion about it! a lady just blithely and irresponsibly passed her baby to a total stranger without a word! and that stranger – me, if you’re keeping track – might have been diseased!) (she has since admitted to me that her representation of what happened was misleading), what she saw and explaining why she thought it was wrong. And it was wrong, from her point of view. Unsanitary. Dangerous. Wrong. Her commenters went even further: why, I might have AIDS! Be homeless! A drug user! Sexually loose! In fact, was what I’d done really any different from wandering into a bar and asking some strange man to grope my titties? Really? Also: AIDS! Or some other horrible virus. That, and my boobs – this helpfully noted by the author – were probably unsanitary, to boot. Also, I’d probably been drinking.

I can’t even begin to describe how hurtful it was to read these things. This was me they were talking about. And Laura, who was as lovely a woman as I had ever met. Laura and I had just met, sure, but I think that we both hoped that we were becoming friends. And we share a belief – a healthy, woman-affirming, baby-adoring belief – that we mothers are all in this together, that we’re all served and enriched when we trust each other and help each other. She had a hungry baby; I had excruciatingly painful breasts that needed to be released of their milk. We came together with our needs. You’re welcome to say that you couldn’t see yourself doing this; you are welcome, even, to cringe and shudder a bit in distaste. Whatever. We all have our issues. Just don’t flaunt your disgust. And certainly don’t use it to publicly shame mothers who make choices that you might not make. What I do with my boobs – what any mother does to ensure that her baby gets fed – is none of your business. And your public expression of disgust and alarm hurts. It hurts me, it hurts all of us. It reinforces the idea that breasts and breastfeeding hover on the very razor’s edge of shamefulness, that these things on our chests are somehow, in some way, dirty and icky and bad, unless we operate them under the very strictest rules of propriety (only if they’re covered up! only if it’s your own baby! only if it doesn’t make us uncomfortable! only if WE SAY IT’S OKAY!)

Memo to everybody: these? Are not your boobies. They are mine. And my babies? Also mine. I will nurture and nourish them as I see fit, and I will champion any other mother to do the same. Your disgust, your judgment threatens to undermine us, weaken us, take away some of our power as mothers who demand to make their own way and their own rules. Which, fuck that.

This is MY motherhood. These are MY boobs.

Hands off.

Memo to everybody: in case you missed what I said above – “You’re welcome to say that you couldn’t see yourself doing this; you are welcome, even, to cringe and shudder a bit in distaste” – I’ll say it again (it seems that I need to): you are welcome to disagree with I did, and/or with what Laura did. You are welcome to say that you would not do this. You are welcome to voice a contrary opinion. I encourage it. I’m fascinated by so many elements of this discussion (not least, something that one commenter brought up – trust and community. Under what circumstances do we choose to trust or not trust each other, to take each others’ words, or not do? Laura trusted me when I said that I was healthy and not taking anything that might compromise my milk. Perhaps this had everything to do with my appearance, or with the fact that I was obviously a nursing mother, or perhaps just with the fact that she had decided that I was simply worth trusting. I was moved by this. We need more of this kind of generosity of spirit in daily life) and I enjoy hearing different opinions. What I don’t like: inappropriately expressed judgment or shaming. That’s the whole point of the latter part if this post: shaming hurts everybody. If you’re here to express an opinion, respectfully – great. I’ll support and defend that. But if you’re here to call names or point fingers or say anything that you wouldn’t say to someone you loved, then maybe just turn back now.

Let’s be kind.

Which means, too – and forgive me if it seems hoity for me to take this on – that everybody is very welcome to NOT direct opprobrium at the blogger mentioned here. This has no doubt been hard on her, and although I remain hurt and (yes, am juvenile) angry, I do not want her to be put through any more of a ringer than she already has. Please. Both she and I deserve some peace around this.

Comments on this post are now closed. I’m happy to read other posts on the subject – yes, even they disagree with milksharing – so if you write about it, please do let me know.

Posted by Her Bad Mother on March 10, 2009 10:01 am • Rants, boobs, breastfeeding, fearless • 502 comments

502 Comments

Rachel B Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

I am so proud of you!
geenalyn Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:17 pm

I think its awesome that Laura let you nurse her child and that you were good with doing it as well. Anyone that finds that icky or disgusting obviously has problems
carmen Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

Bravo, Catherine. Bravo.

I am proud to know you. This post is yet another reason I adore you.

Hands off the boobies, indeed.
Vanessa Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

Wow. That’s an amazing story.
Well, the first part of it anyway.
What a jerk of a woman for blogging about something she had no idea about. What a sicko.
Good for you!
bessieviola Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:19 pm

I love this. Thanks for talking about it rather than staying quiet. There is NOTHING shameful about nursing. I am so tired of this stupid culture.
kwr221 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:20 pm

You GO GIRL!

And Laura, too!
Marinka Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:20 pm

This is a really interesting post and topic because, for me, at least, it brings up all sorts of issues. I know for a fact that I would not let another woman nurse my child, but not having been able to nurse my own daughter, I realize that I have emotional issues around the subject that may not be universal.

I didn’t read the post that this is in response to, and I would like to discuss the issue further, but I have to ask if “brava!” is the only acceptable response.

For what it’s worth, I have absolutely no issue with any woman breastfeeding or formula feeding her child. Her body, her choice.
Ariel Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

I could HAPPILY have been a wet nurse- I made lots of milk, I liked breastfeeding and I was good at it.
There is nothing wrong with nourishing a hungry child. NOTHING.
Jen Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:22 pm

It’s hard to believe that people can be so judgmental. I’m choosing not to breastfeed for various reasons, mostly because I’m just not comfortable with it and I’m always shocked at how people react. Some have treated me as if I don’t love my baby enough and that hurts. I hope you know that for every “hater” there are lots of people who love and admire you!
Angella Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

I’ve been waiting to hear the full story after seeing Twitter.

My StepMom and her sisters (and sometimes her FRIENDS) would nurse each others’ babies if they were watching them for each other and the babies got fussy.

NO BIG DEAL.

When I saw your original Tweet about nursing the baby, all I could think was, “AWESOME. You’re not in pain anymore.”

(Please tell me you’re going to email me the link of the asshat who wrote about you.)
califmom Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

A. Fucking. Men.
Heather B. Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

“She invited me to a parenting event in Albany later in the month.”

You already know my opinion on the important stuff even though I was kinda drunk when I wrote it. But the above is the important part. Please come. PLEASE! I’m so lonely here, I could cry.

Oh yeah, and I’m an Albany area blogger. I always forget that part.

Please come.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

I’ve never told anyone this before. (And being that I am doing so anonymously now makes it kind of a weak confession…but here goes.)

My son is 3 months older than my nephew. And one day, when my nephew was about 3 months old, my sister left him with me (and my baby) in a hotel room (we were all on a family vacation) – and she got stuck in traffic, and both the babies got HUNGRY, and I nursed my baby and her baby CRIED and CRIED and CRIED. And then I nursed him too.

And I never told her. Because I it seemed awkward and strange and I did it because I needed to make the baby stop crying. (And if I hadn’t been 100% sure that I was HIV negative (because there was a needle stick during a repair surgery I had after my son was born, and the hospital did a test) – I might not have done it. But I did. And the baby stopped crying and he’s nine years old now and certainly none the worse for wear.)

I’m sorry people attacked you for doing something that was natural for you.
Etolane Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

Great Post! I think there are absolutly no shame in that. Au contraire more Pride and gratefullness is needed! After all when there was no concentrated baby milk, women with trouble nursing were certainly very grateful those who shared their breasts to feed their hungry baby! I even think that in the old days it was a normal pratice…
Our Crooked Tree Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

I feel sorry for the troll; she must be a miserable woman. As women we should lift each other up not tear each other down. Good for you for doign what you feel is best for you.
Suburban Turmoil Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:26 pm

Shame, shame, shame on that woman for judging you. I would have done the same thing as you did, or as Laura. Engorged boobs are about the most miserable thing EVER and any woman who wouldn’t have sympathy on another in that situation is heartless, indeed.

Interestingly, I had a similar experience at BlogHer 07, when my portable breast pump broke at the very beginning of the trip. If it hadn’t been for Liz Gumbinner and Joy Palmer both letting me use their breast pumps during the weekend, I would have been beside myself with pain. Breast pump loan, baby loan, what’s the diff?
Redstocking Grandma Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:26 pm

I feel privileged to read your blog. I nursed my niece a few times when I was babysitting and she absolutely refused to take a bottle. Amusingly she would only nurse if I took her into a darkened bedroom and nursed her on the bed, becoming an anonymous boob in the dark. My primary emotion was great relief I could comfort her.
Black Eyed Gurl Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

Think of it this way: Salma Hayek did this in Africa and people called her a humanitarian (granted some people called her a creepy freak, but those people are creepy freaks). You are a humanitarian!
You were generous, and giving to a child who needed it. Sure the kid probably wouldn’t of gone hungry without you, but that the other mother understood your pain, and offered to let you release your pain and help her own child, well to me, thats a beautiful thing. Women spend too much time tearing each other down (cos really, that’s what life’s all about right? Putting yourself on a high and “moral” pedestal to judge others? Wait. It’s not?), and not enough helping each other. I say Brava to you and Laura for showing that women can help each other and be better for it!
Mom101 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

I love you and your boobs.

And I love you for being strong in the face of people saying horrible, hurtful things, and I love you for writing this with such a level-head, and without reciprocating the animosity that was flung at you in the first place.

You are loveable and beautiful and compassionate and human. And anyone who can’t see that is missing out.
crunchy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

and really..a 100 years ago..this would not be a story…HELPING another mom would just be second nature…

Our world has become far too solitary and far too squeamish
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

I don’t agree at all with that…but I have the right to think that right??? ANd come here and tell you that right?!?!? It’s just very sad that thinking something is wrong of the other blogger, by posting something against her now……an eye for an eye right!??! that’s good for our children right?!?!?! hmmmmmm, this is just taken way to far.
Shannon Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

I have often wondered why most people seem to find it strange, if not VERY WRONG AND BAD for someone to nurse another person’s baby. Maybe it’s just that some find it to be so intimate that they don’t like the idea of their child sharing that with someone other than them or vice versa? But it seems to me that if both you and Laura agreed and trusted each other and the baby was cooperating I don’t see the harm. Especially since she offered and was not coerced.

I’m sorry people said hurtful things about you. It sounds like it was a unique and thoughtful encounter. (shannon@livinginthegray.com)
Lesha Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

Hats off to you and to your friend Laura. There have been a few times when breast pump parts had been forgotten and I would have done the same thing if I had a friend like you did.

And to all those who had only a smidge of the facts and felt it necessary to degrade and belittle, shame on them. I’d like to just shake my head and then go about my business, but they continue to perpetuate the idea that breast feeding is some how bad, and that is just wrong of them.

Thanks for posting about this. Thanks for making this normal.
ScientistMother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

Laura – If you are reading this, wow. What an amazing, wonderful person you are. Open minded, knowledgeable about the true risk, and loving. yeah to you.

To HBM and Laura. I am sorry that you are subject to such stupid judgement. Hugs to both
Turbonerd Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

Good for you!

You have run headlong into the great paradox of free speech: anyone can express their opinion on any subject, no matter how poorly informed that person may be.

Educate ‘em.
zchamu Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

Congratulations on having the restraint to not name and shame the blogger who presumed to know exactly what was going on and misjudged it so badly.

This is yet another battle moms shouldn’t *have* to fight. And yet here it is. Sigh.
TSM Oregon Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:29 pm

If it’s good enough for Salma Hayek…well, it should be good enough for anyone, no?

I’ve felt the pain to which you are referring, and I would hug that lovely woman who offered you relief. Sweet, ever-lovin’ relief.

No stones to throw here.
Sarah Lena Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:29 pm

I have a friend who often jokes that she could provide breastmilk to any third world country because, no lie, she can put out, like, twelve ounces in a thirty minute sitting.

I could not breastfeed my child.

I had always wished that I had just asked. I don’t think she would’ve cared, and I know my kid wouldn’t have.

I don’t think your boobs are dirty, if it helps.
EliandMe Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

Can you post a link to the offensive blog so we can tell the judgemental ignorant so and so exactly how wrong she is.

I have never been in a situation where nursing a baby other than my own has come up, but I have donated expressed milk to the prem babies ward. And I don’t remember a single question being raised about my suitability as a human being, nor did anyone accuse me of having cooties.
Isa Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

Granted I am the child of hippies, but I was nursed by other mothers in the community where I was born. I’ll admit to being a little weirded out by it when my mom first told me, but as a mother who exclusively breastfed my son, I can see now why they did it. Shared immunities, community parenting…remember, it “takes a village.”
Another Suburban Mom Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

I commend you for what you and your friend did, and wish a virulent case of crotch crickets on the woman who gave you a hard time.

Wet-nursing was a common practice in this country until the widespread use of formula. If both the mom and baby are healthy why not.

In the future though, just in case you don’t have an extra baby around, you might want to keep a hand held breast pump in the gigunda mommy purse that all mommies have.
fidget Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

I’m starting to think the whole fishfulthinking campaign is tainted. I havent heard one positive thing about it yet!

your boobs, your decision.

It was kind of Laura to help you out like that.
Goddess in Progress Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

Well done, you. Could I see myself doing the same thing? Maybe not. But that’s my own issue and my own body. Yours is yours. Clearly it was a mutual and comfortable agreement between all the relevant parties, and that’s all that matters.

Go, you.

And I, too, am impressed at the restraint in not linking to the jerk-face who wrote about you. Shame on her.
Nichole Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

I like to think I could have done the same thing as either you or Laura. I didn’t read the other post either, but clearly from your telling she was mistaken at what she saw and realizes that now. It wasn’t random and short of a full background check/blood test the two of you made a choice that ultimately helps two people.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

Marinka – ‘brava’ is the generous response. Two women acted in a way that met each others’ – and a baby’s needs – if you have judgments about that, recognize them as your own. As I said, I don’t care if people disagree, or wouldn’t do it themselves – but there’s no reason to shame people for it, which is what the other blogger did (and misrepresented what happened), and every reason NOT TO.
mothergoosemouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

Damn fucking straight.

I *love* you.

Your adorable baby reminded me so completely of my own adorable baby a few weeks ago in Houston, when I was suffering from my own engorgement pain. I, however, was not nearly as brave as you were.

Again, I *love* you, my courageous and level-headed and loving friend.
Mommy Melee Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

I think you’re amazing. And so is Laura. Judgy McJudgerpants should be ashamed for flaunting her issues in a hateful way.
MadWoman Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

Shameful. Digusting. Dirty. Unthinkable.

All things I could NEVER connect to this event.

I have also nursed another woman’s baby, and I was also shamed. Whispers flew around the room, gossip travelled around town about me.

And you know what? I was just as hurt as you, just as upset…..and just as “fuck you buddy, these are MY boobs!”

Good for you for nursing that child. Good for Laura for allowing you that connection with her child.

I’m with you……..who gives a shit really??

Hmm…you’ve sparked something in my brain. I might have to blog now.
Annie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

I agree with Crunchy. Society needs to grow the hell up!

Knowing the pain of engorgement – I’m so glad you had such a great solution – and I’m so sorry you had that backlash – you’re absolutely right – it’s nobody else’s business!
Kat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

I am so glad you kept a level head in your response. It shows true class.
imogen howson Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

In some hospitals, women donate expressed breastmilk especially for ill or premature babies whose own mothers aren’t able to do it, because it’s so much better for them than formula.

If that (done for the sake of the babies and via tubes) is acceptable then I don’t see why what you and Laura did (mostly for your sake, and via nipple) is somehow worth freaking out over.

I know how much it hurts when the baby isn’t there to feed.

Also, even if someone’s visceral response is “ugh”, it’s completely vicious to blog publically about it like that.

There are lots of things I would personally rather not do (breastfeed someone else’s child, let someone breastfeed mine, keep my placenta in the freezer, have my parents present while I give birth, eat frogs’ legs or live oysters, go potholing…) but moral judgments have no place in such decisions. And attacking someone else for doing any of them is stupid, uncompassionate and rude.
Average Jane Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

I don’t even have kids, yet I can’t imagine why anyone would presume to pass judgment for that completely natural and harmless interaction.
Bellamomma Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:34 pm

I'm a "new" nursing momma ~ but pumping (or nursing) for more than 3 hours has me in so much pain that I could cry and I hope that another mom would take pity & help me out … I hope that I would take pity on another mother & help her out in return … and I would hope that any bystanders would keep their traps shut & their opinions to themselves. It was Laura's decision to help another woman in need. I can't imagine ANY woman at Fishful Thinking was unclean, homeless or hygenically revolting. I can't imagine any responsible woman who nurses her child would willingly ingest substances that could hurt their child. Why was it Nosey's business to open your decision to ridicule and judgement??

My first thought was that I would have handed you my breastpump in a heartbeat!!
K@ndi Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:34 pm

Wooo hooo!
Jaden Paige Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:34 pm

What an idiot for criticizing you both. I think you did exactly what was right, for you and for Laura and her baby. And that’s what matters. As you said above, it’s seriously NONE of that other blogger’s business.

I was invigorated when I read the story- it’s great to see two mothers coming together, reaching out to each other and in the end, everyone won.

I’d like to give that other lady a piece of my MIND!
Judith Shakespeare Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:35 pm

I think that this is a prime example of why our society spends most of its time in the crapper.

You and Laura? My heroes.
Katie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:35 pm

I can’t even imagine a world in which the comments made about you are acceptable. (Fishful thinking lady, that is. The cheers are aweswome!)

Bodies are messy and breastfeeding doesn’t fit into the box of feeding that formula companies have tried to sell us – measuring food by ounces, sterilized and corporatized. And even with that, every study says that it’s the optimal feeding option for a baby. Who would have thought? Science and technology can’t always replace what messy bodies can do.

(This is NOT a judgment at all of folks who don’t breastfeed – there are lots of difference choices that people make, and I support those choices. Not even a question.)

I applaud your and Laura’s decision to figure out a solution that works for your needs, and her generosity is awe-inspiring. I can only hope I would be so attuned to others’ needs in the same situation.
Motherhood Uncensored Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

Ur just jellus that yew didn’t git to be one of thems fishful thanking marms, huh?
Tara@Sticky fingers Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

Really fascinating post.
I don’t know if I would have while I was breastfeeding. I’d like to think I would, but I just don’t know.
What I do know is that I would not deride anyone for doing it, nor make them feel like they had done something wrong.
Shame on that woman.
Angie [A Whole Lot of Nothing] Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

Wow – I’m not sure if I could have done what you did, but then again, I wasn’t in your shoes. I breastfed both of my girls for several months each, and I know the NEED for needed to express after several hours, much less a day.

Your boobs – do with them what you will. I admire Laura for feeling comfortable enough w/ you to allow her daughter to feed from you, and you for feeling comfortable enough to let her.

Brava
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:37 pm

Was this a post to get your posse together to make you feel better??!?!? I hope it worked, because now they are doing to her what you thought was wrong to do to you! Explain all you want…it is what it is now.
Lara Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

When I first responded to your tweet that you had left the pump at home (before you were even at the meeting), I think I said something like “find a baby!”…finding a baby to nurse was my first instinctive thought! The idea that it was nasty or dirty never even crossed my mind as a possibility, and the aftermath of your choice (YOUR choice) stuns me! And really, this is between you and Laura. No one else…I’m so sorry you had to deal with this pain on top of boob pain!
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

I’ve read that in some cultures, the advanced ones I tend to think, new mothers are taught to nurse with an older baby belonging to another woman, who in turn helps the new baby learn to nurse on experienced boobs. It makes so much sense.

I nursed my nephew once when my sister was exhausted and had no milk, and I had full boobs and an older baby who was not hungry. It was the perfect solution to a simple supply and demand problem. We haven’t ever mentioned that to my nephew, however, who is now 19 and obsessed with breasts .
Poppy Buxom Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

I guess nobody has read this Guy de Maupassant short story.
Nicole Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

I’m so glad you posted your story!!

Shame on that woman for her disrespectful post and encouraging others to jump on her bandwagon.

I am not going to go read her post.
From what you’ve said it isn’t something I could not comment on and I don’t think it deserves the time it would take to read it or the time it would take to comment on.

I think all breastfeeding mothers — whether they would have made the same decision or not — can understand your position.
I can remember when my friend was struggling to breastfeed her newborn baby and he was painfully hungry.
I never offered to breastfeed for her, but I thought about it and now I wish I would have.
I was afraid it would be weird. She would think it was gross. That she would be offended.

I think that having the courage to do that makes you an amazing woman.
Don’t let all those haters bring you down.

Stay strong mama!
The Izzinatrix Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

I think you already know that support you and your choices fully. But I had to ring in that I’m shocked that somene would be so harsh about something so natural. Breasts make milk. Babies drink breastmilk. I fail to see the problem. Go on with your bad self and to hell with the haters.
Barb @ getupandplay Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

I find this story so amazing for so many reasons. First, that the solution to your problem came from a near-stranger- Laura’s sensitivity and compassion touched me. Second, the “duh” moment that came to me- of course that would be the solution!! Third, I am absolutely horrified that an outside observer would attack you both in that way. The meanness of that act is beyond me, not to mention her chosen subject matter is the most natural thing in the world. Some people!!
The Panic Room Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

I would love to comment but all I can think of are long winded rants about what a B that lady was that slammed you and let her readers get all “witch hunt” about you.

You do what you want with those boobs and try and ignore the ding dongs leaving uninformed comments.
Issas Crazy World Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

I will be honest Catherine, when I saw your tweet the other day, it gave me pause for a moment. Mostly because I don’t breastfeed, so I had to think about it for a bit, wondering if I had an issue with it in some way, or if it was just something we aren’t used to hearing about. My conclusion was sort of what you said: I would not feel uncomfortable with someone feeding my son a bottle, so how could I see this as any different. In the end it’s not. A baby is a baby and a hungry one needs to be fed, no matter what. I think Laura helping you in that way is absolutely sweet. There’s not a thing wrong with it. Mother’s need to help each other, not judge each other for every choice.

I hope people leave you alone on this. But I know you will attract the haters, even more than you already have. But I’ve got your back.
CrookedPigtails Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

Hungry baby + hurting mamma = perfect match. The math is simple; unfortunatly, so are some minds.
Laural Dawn Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

When I had my son (almost 5 years ago) I had a friend ask me if I wanted to trade off babysitting – and part of the deal was we’d nurse each other’s kids.
I never did it.
I felt uncomfortable with it, and honestly if I was asked to do it now with my daughter I’d still say no.
I don’t think it’s creepy or gross though. Just not my thing.
When I read your story I just thought that Laura was pretty remarkable for offering her daughter. I wouldn’t have.
But, I also wouldn’t have judged. Or blogged about it.
Lala Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

I think it’s a beautiful story, regardless of how much I enjoy you as a blogger and the circumstances around someone’s disdain. I’m sorry the internet hurt you.
Jane @ What About Mom? Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

(I’m almost embarrassed to admit this, now that I’ve read your powerful post, but)

After your tweets last night I wrote a post about breastfeeding my friend’s baby.

I googled “Fishfulthinking” last night and when the Goldfish crackers site came up, it didn’t even occur to me that that could be what you were talking about.

How dare they?

Never buying Goldfish again …
Steph Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

I think what you did was both LOGICAL and BRAVE. I am very proud of you Catherine.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

I guess I will be in the minority here, so I hope I don’t get flamed too much. I probably should stay out of the drama, but breastfeeding is a topic I am passionate about.

I am a nursing mother, currently nursing a 13 month old.
I would never ever let a stranger nurse my child. Ever. I am sorry if that makes you feel that I am calling you disgusting or dirty – but, um, you are a stranger to me. I have no idea what you do in your spare time, I have no idea what meds you might take. I understand you told the Mom that you are taking care of yourself and not on any suspicious meds – but, to me, I am not chancing my child’s health on the word of a total stranger. Even if that total stranger has a lovely personality and seems sweet and someone I would be friends with. It is still someone I JUST met, and my child is more important. Surely you can understand someone feeling that way, can’t you?

I mean, I have met perfectly delightful nursing mothers who also smoke, drink, toke doobies, drink 20 diet cokes a day…all while nursing. Yep, I really have. It is sad, but this is not a world where everyone is clean just cause they say they are, you know?

I saw your original tweet when you nursed the baby. You broadcasted it for the internet to see, therefore you must expect that some will frown upon it and disagree. Yes, the blog poster was um…harsh in her wording, and could have been gentler…sure. But its her OPINION, and she has a right to state that opinion on her own blog. She is not a troll, she is also a woman and a mother.

But that is not even what bothers me. If you and the Mom are ok with it, hey great!
What really saddens me the most is that now – through bullying from people who follow you and take your side – she removed her post. That is not fair. It is not fair that just because someone does not like you, or even finds you gross, that now they have to self censor to avoid being slammed, flamed, cursed, and bullied. Its like pack mentality, and it scares me.

I read your blog and think you are an excellent writer. But something I don’t get about you is that you take things so terribly personally when someone makes a bad comment to a post, or criticizes you on their blog. It keeps you up at night, and clearly causes you so much anguish. If it bothers you so much, why do you continue to put yourself out there? When you put yourself out there, your business becomes fodder for scrutiny – and don’t you have to kind of just accept that and choose to ignore?
I don’t know.
I’ll shut up now.
ps – I don’t actually think you are dirty, and you have a nice tummy.
tracy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

Bloody awful you were criticised like this. It’s a lovely story, not at all yucky.
Seriously people need to think a bit more logically before they type, it’s fine to give babies milk from other animals….but not from another human?
If more of us were open to wet nursing it would do womankind (and babies) alot of good imo
thetypicalquirk Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

I am not a mother, but I totally understand what you did and why and am very proud of you. I follow you on twitter and I think you are awesome!
MoMMY Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

You, Laura and your boobs ROCK!
brenna Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

I wouldn’t mind nursing someone else’s baby, I’d probably be grateful, in fact, if I was in your situation. But I’m not sure I’d be as open to letting someone else nurse my baby, in the same situation. Something I’ll be thinking about, for sure.

As for this other blogger, my first thought on reading her post was ‘I didn’t know it was possible to be a troll on your own blog’. So distasteful, so judgmental, so misleading.
Pgoodness Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

Laura offered. It’s not like you begged her on the street as a random stranger to let you nurse her kid!

People are too uptight. The baby got fed, you felt relief and made a new friend. Not sure what of that is up for debate amongst those McJudgersons on the internet, but whatever. I say good for you.

Just a question…if you had carried a bottle in your bag and gave that to another baby, would that have even warranted a second glance? Why is this different?
EmmaK Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

Catherine, I think it is great what you did. It’s all the same milk, so why not?
Magpie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

I’m really glad you posted this, and I’m sorry that you were slammed by someone who thought it was wrong.

For what it’s worth, my child drank my sister’s breast milk – pumped milk, but pumped for the same reason that you needed to nurse.
@sweetbabboo Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:49 pm

Good for you. I’m not sure I’d be able to do this (though I haven’t been faced with such an engorged situation, so who knows…), but I don’t think it is anyone else’s business to judge you.

Breastmilk can be donated (which I have considered) and I wonder if she would have a problem with that. Is her issue with the method of transfer or the item transferred?

Thank you for writing about this so the other side could be given a voice.

-Abby
@sweetbabboo
Julie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

I’m so glad you posted about this. I kept reading your “twitters” and was wondering what the hell happened.

I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself. And you are NOT a DIRTY, GROSS, INFECTED scary woman who stole some kid just so you could “infect” them.

Bravo for you. I see no problem with your situation and people should keep their effing mouths SHUT when flinging nasty comments all over the internet.

I can’t wait to read all your comments….should be interesting!
Mom101 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

Katiepie, with all due respect, no one asked her to take her post down. No one flamed her no one threatened her and no one attacked her. I read that entire thread until 2am.

There was no gang mentality from the opposition any more than there was a gang mentality from that blogger’s original commenters.

We should all own our words. The post is gone but the hurt remains.
Amanda Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:52 pm

Good for you! Anyone that has experienced engorgement (and mastitis, like me) can understand completely why this was a wonderful thing for Laura to do. And in the process, her baby was fed the most nutritious food available. Everything about your story (minus the pain, of course) is amazing.

I’m glad the other blogger removed her post. I hope she realized how judgmental and ignorant her statements were.

My favorite line when someone complains about breastfeeding? “I make milk. What’s your superpower?”
Ella Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:52 pm

i think it was amazing that laura offered and wonderful that all three of you benefited from this. it’s hard to say what one would do differently, if at all, if ever faced with the same situation. i have the same thoughts of “oh what if she [insert horrible circumstance here]” – but the reality is it was laura’s decision – not the other blogger’s. as a (formerly) breastfeeding mother, i’m deeply moved by laura’s offer and your response. kudos to you.
the new girl Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:53 pm

It’s just amazing how far we’ve all come (gone?) in just one generation. When my father was young, wet nursing was COMMON. It happened all the time.

It’s just…odd to me, the perceptions and judgements.

FWIW, I also thought your post was level headed and honest and well put.

I hope putting it out there allows you to get some sleep now.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:54 pm

for all you commentors that didnt read the original blog, she wasnt called infected or having aids, or anything!!! IT WAS ALL WHAT IF QUESTIONS….SOMETHING THAT ANY MOTHER WOULD QUESTION WHEN IT CAME TO THEIR CHILDREN RIGHT!??!?!? BASH BASH BASH, THAT'S ALL I HEAR! BASH SOMEONE TO SHOW THAT BASHING SOMEONE IS WRONG RIGHT!>!>!?!?!??! ALL OF THIS IS DISGUSTING.
Emily Carlton Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

There are so many cultures globally that embrace the nursing of other peoples children – I think it is a complete disservice to North American women that we are so close-minded to this concept.

Good for you for doing what was natural and biologically NORMAL! You needed to nurse, and so did the baby, what a great solution for all.

I think if everyone involved was comfortable with it, then everyone else should just mind their own business!

You are an inspiration – glad to see such wonderful parenting going on in the world in these times.
Brooke Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

How disgusting and gross.

Just kidding, but maybe that will get me some traffic too, eh?

I applaud your open-mindedness. And Laura’s as well. I am surrounded by many people that are horrified by the “ickiness” of breastfeeding and think that I was/am nutty for being so adamant to at least try it for as long as my body will let me. Frustrating. But none of that matters – the babies matter. And engorgment hurts like a bitch.
Lucie @ Unconventional Origins Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 12:57 pm

Good for you, for writing this and for nursing a hungry baby. That unnamed commenter a few back is wrong, you are defending yourself after a cruel and uncalled for attack, not attacking someone else for their choices. And who cares, anyways, if you wanted some support after being personally attacked? I don’t think that’s why you wrote this post, but I would certainly understand wanting to hear from people who love and respect you when there are people on the internet who dedicate their blogging to tearing you down.

And let’s be honest, she probably only took it down because it made all the goldfish stuff look bad, not because it was the right thing to do.

Would I have done it? Yes, but that doesn’t matter. And if I felt comfortably reassured that another woman’s milk was safe and healthy, I would do the same as Laura.

In the words of Joe dirt, keep on keeping on.
Karen Sugarpants Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

Excuse my French, C, but that? Is fucking beautiful.

You never cease to amaze me and I’m proud to call you my friend. Go on with your badself!

xoxo
tutugirl1345 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

Having never been a mother, I have no idea how I’d feeling being in your shoes or Laura’s. That being said, the internet is not a place to flame people. You don’t agree with what someone does? You discuss it in an evenhanded manner and ask others to do the same with their input.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

I appreciate you not flaming me Mom101 – its hard to post a differing opinion and not be anon! I appreciate you being respectful.

I guess it is true – no one outright said TAKE DOWN YOUR POST OR DIE, no – but I read many many tweets and comments that were quite frightening and mean. I followed all evening as well, and I am sure she felt threatened. I sure as hell would.

I just wish blogland in general was more accepting of differing opinions. In my experience (which is admittedly limited) anytime someone dares go against the more popular bloggers – all hell breaks loose in internet land. Maybe I am the one too sensitive to be part of it.
K.Line Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

Wow, what a great post. Like Marinka, I couldn’t breastfeed. Nonetheless, I don’t think I would have nursed the baby of a woman I didn’t know extremely well – but that’s just me. The situation worked perfectly for the two of you and it was brilliantly efficient. So glad you both had minds open enough to find a solution to a problem that might have got quite bad for you (mastitis, for ex). I let my sister nurse my baby a couple of times because I wanted her to benefit from some of the antibodies (and I knew my sister was healthy etc.) My kid didn’t much go for it, but we did give it a try.
Sarah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

I think you’re AWESOME and totally agree with the commenter who said “100 yrs ago this wouldn’t have been a story” … breastfeeding (period) is natural, beautiful and a personal choice for the mother. I would’ve done the same thing. I also would’ve let my baby nurse someone else. What’s the big flippin’ deal?! Amen and Keep your mind and crappy attitude off my bewbs!

You ROCK Cat!
zchamu Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:03 pm

@anonymous – actually, she did say all of those things. And Catherine has every right to respond. The blogger observed a scenario, jumped to a HUGE conclusion then told the story on her blog completely incorrectly, getting validation of zero facts, asking no clarification from the people who were involved. Not cool in any situation, boobs or no boobs.
Mom101 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

Anon 12:54, I was on that thread and you were leading the charge of commenters, m’dear. You were the one who said WHAT WOULD SHE JUST GO TO SOME DRUNK MAN IN THE BAR AND SAY HERE HAVE A SUCKY SUCKY??!!!

That’s pretty much verbatim.
Kelli Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

What and wonderful and beatiful experience it must have been for you to give nourishment to another’s baby and releive your pain! Laura sounds like a special woman.

I remember you from Blissdom09 though I don’t think that we met. I stayed away from the babies since my ovaries were hurting from all the beautiful babies in the room and I was afraid you guys wouldn’t get them back (joke people). I lost my son a couple of years ago but I would have been honored for you to provide nourishment and love for him.
PunkyBean Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

My friend’s mom was a wet nurse and pumped for money. The hospital would come pick up her milk every morning…

Weird that the woman even thought she knew enough about the situation to judge.
sarah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:08 pm

I would nurse another woman’s baby in a heartbeat. I have waaayyy too much milk for one baby. would i let another woman nurse MY baby… hmmm. I don’t know. I’m kind of possessive of my baby I guess.

I’m glad you shared your story… Mothers need to speak up, it’s the only way society will stop frowning on nursing mama’s.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:08 pm

@ZCHAMU….NO SHE DIDNT SAY THAT HERBADMOTHER WAS ALL OF THOSE THINGS….SHE ASKED A QUESTION OF “WHAT IF”? YES SHE CAN RESPOND, BUT SHE’S CRYING ABOUT BEING BASHED, WHEN SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN SHE WROTE BACK ABOUT IT….DON’T BE SILLY.
Kate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:08 pm

It was the right thing to do if you both thought it was the right thing to do. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

There are too many ignorant and nosy people in this world. It’s none of their business!

I hate how breastfeeding gets compared to fondling in a bar… breasts are for feeding babies – the two are not even comparable!
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

KateyPie – what was offensive about the post was that it was intentionally misleading. She’s entitled to her opinion – she’s free to say that she doesn’t like the idea of shared nursing. But she framed it in the context of two TOTAL strangers, who didn’t even discuss things, who just passed off a baby like an object. And when her commenters got hateful (raising spectre of AIDS and drugs and homelessness and sexual immorality) she didn’t step in and correct anything.

She spun the story to make it sound more edgy than it was, at not once did she say that she *didn’t* know whether Laura and I had gotten to know each other, or whether we had had any discussion about health (which, can I say? before raising alarms about health risks, everybody should be sure of their research about what does and does not get passed through milk). She fomented the hateful comments that followed by spinning it as disgusting, and then had to deal with the anger of people who resented that she’d done so.

I didn’t ask her to take it down – she couldn’t take criticism of her own actions. So, I’m supposed to ignore people implying that I could have AIDS, but she’s too delicate to take criticism for shame women who do or have done what I did? Bull.
Jeannie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

When my sister’s baby was born 10 weeks early, frail and tiny, and she didn’t have enough breastmilk for him, I offered her mine as I was still nursing my nine month old son. I never thought anything of it.

And so I think — good for you for doing it, nourshing a hungry child, and good for Laura for helping you out of a painful predicament. There is nothing wrong with feeding a child. You are healthy, she is healthy — there is no problem.

Our culture is virulently anti-breastfeeding, not to mention completely xenophobic. If you haven’t known someone since birth, they might be a stranger and you never can tell if they might be a weirdo! It’s very very sad.

Me, I am tremendously heartened by your story — that someone would nourish another’s child, that another woman would do something amazingly personal to help another woman, and that in this crazy world two woeman can meet and immediately have a connection as friends.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

MOM 101, NO YOU LEFT OUT THE PART ABOUT A MAN OR A WOMAN…DON’T GET IT WRONG!
EarnestGirl Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

First: that you opened this up for comments? BRAVE. For opening up not only your story, and your hurt, but also to allow for the possibility of even one more judgmental thing? SO FREAKING BRAVE.

As for the rest, well, yes. Of course you did, and how amazing and natural and generous that she did, and it is just not anyone else’s business to blog about. I like to believe – just wrote these very words – that we are all in this thing together, this huge complicated important thing called Motherhood. Your decision was just such a moment: private, companionable, between two mothers who shared a personal moment of sympathy and understanding.

But we are not in Utopian Motherhood, we are here where breastfeeding is fraught with cultural baggage and we are not all going to agree. We are all however, diminished by judgment and the spreading of ugliness. Bravo for your courage and your honesty. Bravo for your boobies. And good for her for taking down the nastiness.
Jozet at Halushki Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

What amazes me is that what women allow babies to do to their boobs isn’t half as “weird” as what they allow men to do.

I don’t get it – boobs are mostly a bunch of fat all in one place on the body, and people get all sorts of hard-ons over them.

No one ever stares lasciviously or otherwise at my muffin top or that hunk of fat at the back of my armpit. Or at the back of my knee.

And good lord, you want to see “gross” exchanges of bodily fluids, try being a cashier for a day.

I don’t get it. However, I know people have hang-ups for all sorts of reasons and some of them beyond their own help, so I’ll keep them in my prayers at night and think good thoughts. I’ll blog about the others.
ck Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

As a postpartum RN I think you’re a-ok. And as others have said, we had wet nurses for a long time in this country!! c’mon people!

I do have a crazy “feeding someone’s else’s baby” story though. While in the hospital, my patient was having her friend nurse her day-old baby, I asked, “oh are you nursing your own baby at home?”. Really, it’s not a good idea for a new mom NOT to provide stimulation to her breasts because as you know the milk will then not come in. “NO, she said, “I just have had something leaking from my breasts for a while”. “WHAT!?” Now THAT is weird. We put a stop to that as that leaking could have been something bad indeed!

You go girl!!
Kimberly Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

Well, my goodness. A situation like this does bring out us lurkers, doesn’t it?

All I can say is that she was a gracious woman (the one who lent you her baby) and I am sure you were grateful, eh?

A mommy of a little girl in my son’s preschool class had a baby three months before I did. I knew I was going to have some supply problems, and she had extra frozen breastmilk. She offered, I accepted. I don’t think the situation was any different.

Not everyone would have made the choice that you two did, but not everyone would have made the choice that my friend and I did.

Think I might link to this since I have nothing else in my mind to blog about.
Heather Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:13 pm

I think it’s wonderful that you and Laura were able to help one another out. In all honesty, I would probably not be able to do the same (especially letting another woman nurse my baby) but I think you both are just more evolved emotionally than I am. I also produce a lot of milk so if I let another woman feed the baby then I would be in the hurting position in an hour or so.

I really don’t see the point of judging another mother’s actions. If it was agreeable to those involved, and no one was being hurt, then YAY!
Procrastamom Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:14 pm

This was such a wonderful story. An anecdote, I thought, about a unique experience you’d had. Then OOOOF, I get to the part about the other poster and I literally feel like I’ve been kicked. Why does it always feel like that when I read about other mothers passing judgement? It felt like all of those times I’ve read a piece or a comment that puts people like me down for NOT breastfeeding or not cosleeping or not parenting the exact. same. fucking. way. that. Mrs. Opinionated. does.

I guess I wonder why I’m surprised by that feeling every damned time. Sigh.
Issas Crazy World Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

What I am finding interesting is that the woman has now taken down her post. Commenters have said on here, that you somehow did that. I don’t agree. She posted her opinion and if she really felt so strongly about it, she should have left it up. We all write things that can get us flamed by strangers.

“Posse” or not, you’ve put your words, feelings and heart into this post and you’re letting people speak freely, whether they agree or not. It’s the easy way out to take down a post and that’s what she’s done, which makes me wonder if she really thought about it before she hit post.
Brian Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

For the first year after birthing my first daughter, my wife pumped a few extra ounces each day, froze it, and then once a week I drove it to the Mother’s Milk Bank in Austin, Texas. It was an incredible effort on her part, breast milk equaling gold as you know, and the milk went to premature infants whose own mothers’ milk had not come in yet.

And every time I dropped off that small igloo cooler of milk, that small cooler that represented a rather significant sacrifice of time, effort, and yes, milk, a small cooler that may have given a newer-than-new infant a chance that they wouldn’t have had before, I said “Here you go! Here’s your stock of frozen disease and unsanitary filth.”

Because I’m a judgmental moron.
Marsha N Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

I am new to your blog, but loved this post, for it’s openness and because, in my opinion, you are just *right.* Ha. I also nursed, for 2 years, and traveled and hated that pump. If there had been someone else around who I’d bonded with (yes, it’s a real relationship folks, and you don’t need to fill out health forms before trusting your bonding) and needed some honest to goodness warm yummy milk, I would have so been there.
wyndsong Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:17 pm

When will people learn that breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, wonderful thing.. it’s not gross, disgusting, or dirty in any way shape or form! Good for you both for not letting the fact that you weren’t the mother of the child to stop you from breastfeeding! You needed it.. I remember how horrible the pain of not being able to feed was. **shudder** My mother breastfed my cousin when she was a baby because her mom was ill at the time. Le Leche League USED to have donated mother’s milk for women who needed help for whatever reason. They stopped doing that by the time I was born, which was when my mom REALLY needed it because she had to have breast surgery and I was alergic to everything. So because there was no one to help her out with breastfeeding, she had to postpone her much needed surgery until she had saved enough milk for me on her own. Postponed the surgery for 3 months before she had enough milk saved. I’m sorry you had to be hurt by the hate mongerers, but I”m glad you wrote about it! Thank you for sharing!
Chicky Chicky Baby Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

I have nothing else to offer here except my admiration to both you and Laura. No one was harmed, no one was going to be harmed. There was the exchange of nutrients and relief and needs were met on all sides… And that is a wonderful thing.
Tricia Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:19 pm

I say the only opinions that matter on this subject are yours and Laura’s. Your boobs, her baby, end of story.

Tell the rest of ‘em to mind their own damn business.
Vic Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:20 pm

Problem + solution = happy HBM & baby.
Many mothers wouldn't have offered their child to ease your pain, Laura did so trusting you, and yes she was lucky you weren't some psycho, but that was her judgement to make. These people attacking you should butt right out (to put it politely) and let you get on with it. You both did a brave thing, and an even braver in both blogging about it.
Mary G Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:20 pm

Way to go, you. Also, way to go Katie for putting her name on a differing opinion. (If it is written by Anonymous, I don’t read it.)
I just read a post where a woman was grossed out by the idea of showering in a locker room and by women who did being naked when they dressed (and BENDING OVER to put their socks on). Perhaps the woman who was grossed out by the baby exchange was someone with similar phobic tendencies.
Poor things.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

HerBadMother- well that is true – it works both ways – if we expect you to take criticism then that other Blogger should too.

I really really wish she had left that post up – even though you feel it was damning. Cause now I am the only one publicly admitting I don’t agree. Hey, fun!
TSM Oregon Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

I have to come back and chime in about the “eye for an eye” thing.

If I go post that Dave from Blogography has a serious chocolate pudding addiction, and that I think it’s detestable and perverted, and hit “publish”, I would do so fully expecting his lovely fan base to come after me.

Any post I make that is critical of something or someone has the potential to pull down a rain of fire from those with opposing views. Thus is the nature of a BLOG.

Do I have sympathy for the writer who dissed you? No. She didn’t have to hit publish.

Regarding your tweets about the act itself? Clearly if you felt there was something shameful about it you would not have tweeted. So I do not agree that “you knew when you posted on Twitter that some would frown on it and disagree”. There was no reason to think anyone would. That’s why this is such a big deal. What should have been a heartwarming thank you turned out to be a witch hunt. Crazy.

Also? Anonymous postings lose their credibility. If you really stand behind something, you put your name on it.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:24 pm

Also, I feel the need to say – I would gratefully and whole-heartedly accept milk from a milk bank if my baby needed it – but milk banks are extremely cautious about screening and testing donating mothers. Its not really the same thing we are talking about here.
Also, I would gladly nurse a baby in real need if I had to. So, I hope people don’t think its some weird booby hangups that make me in the minority. Nope!
Susan Getgood Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:24 pm

Catherine, what a gracious and articulate post. And kudos to Laura from the symposium for her generous and sympathetic act.
Amo Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:26 pm

I am so saddened by this turn of events. Why must we as mothers judge others? We’ve all had our ‘mommy fail’ moments and yet we still presume to know what is best for another family.

Good for you for being the bigger person here. You didn’t link to the blogger; you didn’t slam that woman. She made a bad decision in judging another and shame on her for sharing it with the world.

I’m sorry for the ridicule you have experienced, but this ‘mommy blogger’ is very proud of both of you.
TZT Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:26 pm

As a person who fell asleep early last night and didn’t catch a whisper of the controversy on Twitter until today, I don’t think the heart of this post is anger at all. (The comments seem to imply otherwise.)
It’s the beautiful and remarkable story of two moms and a healthy experience that took a swipe at a needless social taboo. Yay HBM, yay Laura!
Mary Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:27 pm

I agree with Katiepie35 on her points except I don’t think the blogger was forced to take her post down. Why she chose to do so, I don’t know. That’s her decision though, just as it was her decision to make her opinions on this matter public.

I read her post. I don’t feel she was calling you out or trying to shame you. Just venting her opinion. Not an opinion I necessarily agree with in its entirety, but it’s her right to air it. Just as you aired the entire saga on twitter. Damn it, you had to know you would get a response.

I’ve thought this through and considered not saying anything, thinking it’s not my business. But it ALL was put out there, and I’ve seen lots of ugliness from it on both sides. I don’t want to sit back without voicing my opinion, even though it may not be popular opinion. Even though there may be repercussions in the internet world for me. I realized I would never want my daughter to stay quiet based on fear of social repercussions.

I was annoyed by the hateful words from commenters on her blog, but I was also annoyed by tweets from your supporters last night. Words laced with implied threats, reminding me so much of adolescent group mentality.

I’m not sure what my reaction would be if someone wrote an entire negative blog post about me, but I don’t think I’d take it as personally as you have. I would not want it to get to the proportions it has.
momranoutscreaming Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:27 pm

OMG! Do women really forget how it feels to have engorged breasts? I would have kissed that woman while I was feeding her baby! I may be hesitant, however to let someone I didn’t know very well to feed my child but she was comfortable with it so it’s all good right? Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I think these discussions are good and give people something to think about. That’s the only way things are going to change for the better. I don’t understand why it used to be fine to have a wet nurse if you were well off but it’s not fine now? Freaking formula companies and doctors!
zchamu Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:27 pm

Having now figured out who this all was… I think what bothers me the most is that the person keeps saying “I didn’t name names! Why is anyone getting insulted?”

She took a scenario with two individuals and blogged about it. It doesn’t matter if there were “names”. The individuals involved knew exactly who they were, and I don’t quite get how they weren’t supposed to take it personally? When she says such judgmental things as “I guess it doesn’t matter if you don’t care what goes in to your child”?

I think this is yet another case of someone saying something without understanding the full ramifications, without realizing that those words were now OUT THERE and would gather a life of their own, that those words would hurt someone and would come across incredibly badly.

I am trying to keep my criticism to what she said in this instance and to not judge her as a person, but it’s hard, because she judged someone else so harshly.
JP Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how wonderful women can be to one another…and then how completely hateful women can be to one another.

It is truly unfortunate.

Could I have made the same choice? I honestly don’t know and really? It doesn’t matter. It was your choice (and Laura’s) to make, and I respect that. I’m sorry that people made this out to be so ‘icky’.
R Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

having only been a mom for two months now (well, nine weeks today to be exact) and having already experienced this pain you mentioned, and also having JUST become comfortable with others seeing me nursing – I don't know that I could have done what you did, but I see nothing wrong with it – and I applaud both you & Laura for helping each other out in a time of need/want. Good for you both for doing what you felt was best. Again, I don't know that I would be able to do it, but good for you for being able to Catherine!! Those people who say spiteful things about you, Laura, and the whole situation should really just shut up. That is all.

{HUGS}
red pen mama Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

having had engorged boobies on occasion, I think you and Laura did each other a great favor. Go, you. I would not have been so brave, I don’t think.

As to the rest of it: I am standing up applauding you (and getting very strange looks from my co-workers). yes, hands off indeed.

ciao,
rpm
kgirl Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

Can you say f*ck her?

Seriously.

You didn’t do anything wrong, and in fact, it sounded totally smart.

God, people need a whole lot of re-educating, don’t they?
wherewiller Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

Yeah, I just don’t get why this had to be an issue. It was something that both of you decided to do for mutual benefit, the end.
mothergoosemouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:30 pm

MJ, you may think public breastfeeding is gross, but it’s protected by law. Perhaps you ought to stay home.
EarnestGirl Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:32 pm

Brian, you are an EXCELLENT moron.

What he said.

And settle down everyone.
Yazmena Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:33 pm

Amen!
Adventures In Babywearing Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

Oh Catherine, I have no idea what I would have done in your or Laura’s situation, but wow. This has moved me to tears.

What a wonderful act Laura did- I want to meet her! And hug her! And I hope she is not hurting from any negativity because of this beautiful thing she did for you. I had no idea the other person was part of the symposium, too. This makes me hurt for you even more. So upsetting, such odd circumstances that someone jumped on for their own selfish and hurtful reasons.

I think this experience is amazing and something that will be talked about, from now on, only in a positive light. And I hope ultimately that is how you’ll always remember it, too.

Steph
Y Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

What are these threats or “implied threats” that people keep mentioning. I read the post and all of the comments and didn’t see any threats. I just hate when people throw stuff out there like that “She was threatened!” but have no specific examples to point to. Maybe I missed it, but really, I don’t think I did.
Mandy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

I didn’t read the other post. I see from a comment above that it was taken down. So, I’ll just make two (brief) points and leave it at that.

1. One problem I think the world of blogging suffers from is the issue of people feeling “safe” enough to make all kinds of comments (in a post or in the comment forum) that they would not make to someone else’s face. This is not limited to the mommy blogging sphere, either. In my mind, those writers or commenters do such incredible damage to others, whatever their “motives”.

2. North Americans can be so uptight and judgmental at times. As grandma said, point one finger at someone else, and three more will come back to point at you.
Marinka Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:35 pm

Why are anonymous comments always in all caps?

This is such an interesting discussion, and I can’t look away.

I really appreciate Katie’s thoughts.
I’m sorry that the original post was so hurtful. I really think that this is a tough topic and that “100 years ago it wouldn’t have been an issue” is a huge oversimplification.
KayleighJeanne Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

This is another reason I am glad that my boobs hang down to my toes. I could probably nurse off of them myself. Just imagine what kind of reaction that would have gotten.
Mimi Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

Well, no more goldfish crackers over here now, I guess.

Sigh.

Engorged boobs are really painful, really really painful. And being around a baby when you have engorged boobs? Wow, you must’ve really liked Laura to even consent to be near her and her girl in that state–for me, having other kids around always made the engorgement more painful.

Laura did you a kindness. Hats off to her. And you did something your body was aching for: get the damn milk out!

The whole situation is a triumph of human kindness and understanding, generosity of spirit, and an acknowledgement of the power and the needs of the body.
Kristine Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:37 pm

So as usual I’m late to the “party.” I wish I had been able to read the original post so I could feel I was commenting on the whole story.

It sounds to me like the situation worked out perfectly for you, Laura, and her baby. I wouldn’t hesitate to nurse another baby. To be honest though, I’m really not sure how I would feel about another woman nursing my baby. It’s an interesting issue to consider.

That being said, I completely agreed with what Kateypie35 said in her comments. Since I wasn’t able to read the other side I don’t feel I can say much more.

I just wish we could all be kinder to each other in general.
Kelly Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:37 pm

You are wonderful and so is Laura.

Period.
Ms. Thomas Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:38 pm

I think what you did is fine — admittedly a little unconventional, but definitely not disgusting or shameful. If Laura’s baby had a dirty diaper and Laura was busy giving a lecture, should you not change the diaper because, GASP!, you will have to touch another baby’s private parts? The baby doesn’t care who takes care of it — sure, she may have a preference, but more than anything she prefers to be fed, have a clean butt, etc. The kid doesn’t have a problem with it, so shouldn’t adults know better than to contaminate something natural? We so badly want to pretend we’re not animals…
Amber Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:40 pm

I will admit that I’ve been in a store where a mom is pushing a crying baby around in a stroller and it’s caused a letdown. And I’ve been tempted to nurse THAT crying baby, just to make it stop. So I get the need to nurse, and how it doesn’t extend only to my own babies.

That said, I’m not sure I would be comfortable with another mom nursing my baby. I think it’s great that Laura was, and lucky for you. But I would have sort of a hard time. Not because I would worry about diseases or anything, but because I’m kind of possessive and this would just be an extension of that possessiveness.
pandorican Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

PEOPLE WHO POST COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS are stupid. People who do so anonymously are even stupider.

Look. I’m being randomly judgmental, based on seeing one thing about you.
Just like that poster apparently was. She deserves the fallout from this, posse or not. Judging other mothers for their choices is counterproductive and divisive. Whether they are choices we would have made ourselves or not.
Also- breastfeeding (publicly, upside down, twelve random orphans at a time, whatever) is not a crime… wet nursing was common practice for more years that it wasn’t. And it’s a non issue, because it was HBM and Laura’s body/child and more importantly: CHOICE.
B Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

Did I miss something? Who is Cheryl?
Mariah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

I love boobs and breastfeeding…
I think that Laura wasawesome for passing her baby to you and you were awesome to accept that hungry baby. I find it so annoying how judgemental people are. Especially in/ on Blogs
Kristine Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

I actually forgot to say what I originally intended, before I read all the other comments.

I was going to say that I was actually a little surprised that the other baby would nurse from you. I was under the impression, and I really have no idea why, that babies wouldn’t nurse from another woman because they were so used to the smell and taste of their own mother.

From reading the other comments though I see that I was wrong. Such an interesting topic.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

Mary – it was hurtful to me for two reasons. 1) It was misleading. She spun the story in such a way as to make it seem that Laura and I were total strangers, and, further, that we had no discussion about the nursing other than ‘wanna?’ and ‘kay!’. The author admitted to me in an e-mail that it was ‘maybe’ misleading, the way that she portrayed the story. And 2) she allowed her commenters to get vicious, and to feed off of the misinformation she provided. She knows who I am. She knows enough about me to know that I am not homeless, and that it is extremely unlikely that I have a drug addiction or AIDS or an inclination, as one commenter surmised, to wander up to strange men in bars and go SUCKY SUCKY!

So the post felt hostile, and her refusal to ask her commenters to dial back the meanness (never mind correct their wild assumptions) just underscored that air of hostility.

It was a vulnerable thing for me to do. I did it publicly, I spoke about it publicly. She shamed me for it.

And the rest, as they say, is history.
Parent Club Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

You are right. You are right.

a mother should never throw stones at another mother ’cause we all live in friggin’ glass houses.
Glennia Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:49 pm

I’m not sure what I would have done in your situation, but I’m not you. You did what you thought was best, gave yourself some relief and gave a sweet baby a snack (with mom’s permission). Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me.

Poppy Buxom, I read that Maupassant story and now wonder if Steinbeck didn’t steal that for the ending of The Grapes of Wrath.
Veronica Mitchell Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:50 pm

Clearly the world would be better off if more people minded their own business.

Breastfeeding aside, I am a little concerned about the tone in the post and comments about AIDS. Since HIV can be carried without symptoms and can be contracted without self-destructive behavior, is it wise to be offended at the suggestion that anyone might have it? I offered to pump breast milk for a friend’s adopted baby, and at the same time offered to have an HIV test to assure him I did not have it. Although I engage in no risky behavior, it seemed a sensible and compassionate thing to do.

The tone of the post and comments seems to be that only “dirty” people have HIV, and that notion is much more disturbing to me than anything said about breastfeeding.
Adventures In Babywearing Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:52 pm

P.S. I totally just remembered something. Two weekends ago I was stuck trying to get back to a hungry Ivy and twittered about it. I got a DM from a friend who lives nearby and she offered to nurse Ivy if I needed her to. I THINK she said it jokingly but I really do think that if I needed her to, she would have, and I would have been so grateful. I would GLADLY do the same for someone else.

But I never would have expected the negative reaction that you got, especially not from another Mom.

I *personally* would rather Ivy have someone else’s breastmilk than formula.

I know this is not the same situation, but why should that matter?

Steph
Must Be Motherhood Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:52 pm

I actually do think your boobs are magical and that you and Laura’s baby had a brief, temporal bonding moment. But so what? It’s a pleasure of being a lactating woman, and both you and she were relieved of your physical discomfort. Rock on.

What confuses me, though, is why there was a baby there at all. I thought the whole Fishfullthinking Twitter deal, including Mothergoosemouse, involved babies not being welcome at the symposium? Or am I just sleep-deprived and confusing this with something else?
Sundry Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:53 pm

Nothing but support for you and the situation, which sounds win-win all around.

I didn’t see the post in question, but I’ll be honest and say that if I were to discuss my own feelings on letting another woman breastfeed my child, concern about HIV would definitely come into play for me. This isn’t because HIV is a “dirty” disease or because it implies a promiscuous lifestyle, by the way. I would have no judgements about the woman in question, simply the question of whether or not she had been tested.

My point — again, without having read the post, so I don’t know the tone of the discussion at all — is only not to take the subject of potential infection personally. HIV should have no social stigma, and if anyone’s throwing around terms like “AIDS = UNSANITARY” they need to get educated.
Redneck Mommy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:53 pm

All of this could have been avoided if I had just got to New York.

Cuz I’d have totally helped. Suckle.

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Damn airplanes and their mechanical problems.

And I read the entire thread and post before it was yanked down. No one threatened anyone and most of the criticism lay in the blogger’s tone of the article and not policing her commenters. By allowing such shrill and crazy accusations it was construed as tacit agreement by the blog author.

It’s unfortunate that such an interesting platform was started off in such a negative fashion.
jess Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:53 pm

I wish that i could say i am surprised by the reactions to this event, but i’m not. Women still feel more comfortable nursing their babies in public washrooms than quietly on a bench or in a restaurant. Women are asked not to nurse on airplanes. Women are made to feel shame for taking care of their babies. Sometimes women cause other women shame because of fear. It is a sad thing.

I have nursed other babies and i have had other women nurse mine.

I am not part of a posse, i am a mother.
Christina Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

Sigh…sometimes our Western culture is a little uptight and Puritanical, isn't it? And it isn't helped by germophobes urging everyone to sterilize everything and live in a bubble that never touches another human being's bubble to prevent contamination.

What you & Laura did? Brilliant. A perfect solution to a problem, and in many cultures a solution that wouldn't have been given a second thought.

I'd like to think I'd do the same if I was in either of your situations. Hell, I've even offered to loan out my uterus to friends who can't conceive a baby on their own. Does that make me a freak, or someone who just wants to help?

It's a shame that breastmilk is treated like a biohazard by so many. Have you seen the CDC's list of how breastmilk is affected by various diseases? http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/disease/index.htm (most of the links on that page say it's safe to breastfeed for those conditions)

The list of diseases that can be transmitted via breastmilk is extremely small, and even that list points out that the chances of transmission are slim. Only a small number of medications are dangerous to pass through breastmilk, too.

Our bodies are designed to protect our babies, even if we're sick, and even if we're feeding someone who may not be our own child.
ClumberKim Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

I once wrote that I would nurse a baby that was not my own if circumstances warranted. Why the hell not? As my favorite lactation consultant told me frequently, “Feed the baby.”

On a related tangent, when my dog was born, her mom had a litter of seven and her grandma had a litter of seven on the same day. Grandma would regularly walk up to the whelping box, survey the scene, and climb in whichever side of the box had the hungriest looking pups. Didn’t matter if they were her’s or not. It was just the natural thing to do. Feed the hungry. I didn’t realize how amazing that was at the time as I didn’t have children then. Now, I see.

It’s sad that people have to judge, usually to get people to vindicate their own choice. Let her walk a mile in your shoes, or in this case, your bra. Then she can judge.
christine Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:56 pm

What an eloquent response Catherine. So proud of you.

I shared my frozen breast milk with a friend of mine. She was never able to breastfeed and I had a ton of milk that was going to expire — She happily accepted my milk.

No shame!

And also, can someone tell MJMILLS where the caps lock button is on their computer? Jesus…
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:57 pm

Hi… oh hi. Please some attention here, whether you are ‘taking a side’ with one woman or another, as I wish to dispel that notion – immediately.

1) I am not one of this blogger’s posse. I don’t know her — on the internet or in real life, but my god, what she said is perfectly acceptable!
2) I don’t think the internet should be one of those “they said/ she said’ playground battles, particularly if it is pitting one woman (one mother!) against another.
3) I have not found or read or wanted to find and read the original post.

Because of the 3rd point, I don’t feel I can (or will) comment on the original post. I don’t really want to ever comment on it. (From the sounds of it, I disagree with her way of thinking, but yeah, so what? It’s her space too.)

But I really want to get across (beyond all the mudslinging) is that this (herbadmother’s) post is well-said and important and necessary. So deeply necessary, especially as a rebuttal to the attitudes of the first post. Especially because we (seem to) have a messed-up attitude on the virtues and simplicity of breastfeeding! And we have forgotten that it IS personal, that our boobs are our own and not for public disdain or dismissal.

If you actively dislike what occurred, so be it.
But christ, let’s not slag off this well-written, lovely insightful post.

To Catherine personally: I am deeply sorry that you felt shamed. PLease don’t. I really appreciate what you wrote. Kind regards, an anonymous reader.
looneyjen Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:58 pm

who’s this Cheryl that MJMILLS (or whatever) keeps referring to?

I had a stash of frozen breast milk after my first was born and had a friend use some for awhile to put into her daughter’s eye over a weekend to cure her pinkeye. (the doc’s weren’t open and her girl was miserable) it worked.

chew on that.
Momo Fali Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:58 pm

Humans drink cows milk, and THAT’S okay? We don’t know where those cows have been! Maybe at a bar, letting strangers stroke their udders. Or possibly a baby cow has, at some point, had his slobbery lips around the same cow’s teet which provided the milk I let my children drink.

I am not saying that woman wasn’t entitled to her opinion, because she most definitely was. If she took issue with it, that’s one thing, I would not judge her for it. But, plain and simply, name calling is not right.
Domestic Extraordinaire Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 1:59 pm

When Giggles was still BF’ing I was very good friends with a woman whose daughter was 2 weeks older than Giggles. Both girls were exclusively breastfed-we would trade off sitting for each other every now and again and if the child needed nursing we did it. I never thought much of it. Would I have done the same thing when The Chicken was younger-probably so-it just never came up.

What really irks me about all of this is that someone else thought it was their business to tell the world about it and judge. If she had a problem with it she should have come directly to you or to Laura and not turn to the internet. I think that this general rule is a big chunk of what is wrong with society now a days. People don’t ask questions when something is bothering them, they don’t try to get clarification-they just judge.

many hugs to you, Catherine. you rock!!
mothergoosemouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

MBM, that was Camp Baby where I was unable to attend due to nursing baby/JnJ policy.
Michelle Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

I did not get to see the other post, and truthfully I have no clue whether or not I would nurse another womans baby or let her nurse mine. I have never been in a situation to make that choice.

What I do know is that the decision to do so, rested completely between you and Laura and what you two were comfortable with.

I think you are an incredible woman. And I think that the fact that the woman who posted the other post had to resort to name calling and insults, speaks volumes about the difference in character between the two of you.

Power to the boobies!
Sadie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:01 pm

What a beautiful story. My sister was breastfed in a pinch by my mom’s best friend and my own daughter has eaten pureed apples mixed with my sister-in-laws expressed milk.

I never thought anything of it and would gladly offer my girls to any needy babes…if I had much extra to share. If need be, I wouldn’t hesitate to let another mother do the same for mine. I understand the health concerns but all that aside, what the heck else are they for???
Issas Crazy World Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:01 pm

@MJMILLS Two things: 1. The caps are annoying. Using all caps is like shouting, which is infuriating. It’s also the trademark of trolls. If you want to be taken seriously in the blog world, take the cap lock off.

2. Mothergoosemouse is right. Breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world. Formula was invented in the last 70 years. How do you suppose we all lived this long? By breastfeeding. I don’t do it, for reasons that are personal, but I find it the most natural, beautiful thing in the world. There is nothing shameful about it, which is what you were suggesting.

@HBM I’m sensing that a new button needs to be made. I’d do it, but I don’t have the skills. A HBM’s posse? A Bad Mother Posse button? Anyone?
Avonlea Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

Utterly mundane and terrifically awe-inspiring, indeed!

I’m sorry that the other blogger decided it was ok to mislead in her post and allow her comments to veer off into attack and disgust. That pisses me off. Stop shaming!
phenomenalmama Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

I think it’s such a sad commentary on our society today that someone feels the need to express such an opinion on something that has NO effect on them whatsoever.

What you and Laura chose to do (feed her baby, ease your pain) was between the two of you, period.

For the record, it think it’s amazing. And BTW – did you see the video of Salma Hayek nursing a hungry baby boy while she was visiting Africa?
CheekySweetie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

MJMILLS, Maybe you should get back to work. You are not furthering your cause here. You appear abusive and hateful and even a little ignorant and I doubt the poster in question (ohmygosh, YOU spoke her name, maybe her wrath will fall upon YOU next! *gasp*) wants her stance defended by someone who appears to be an anti-breastfeeding zealot. (whether you are or not is not my point. My point is that your comments make you appear that way.)

And yes, we do pay attention to all caps. It’s the way you treat people when you speak to them-even when you disagree-that speaks louder than even your words. Typing in all caps is the internet equivalent of screaming in someone’s face. It’s rude, and abusive, and ignorant, and…oh, maybe that’s why I think you are behaving that way, huh?

It was all fun and games on that other post when you were all up her butt agreeing with her and saying mean things about Catherine. It’s fine for her to post a misinformed opinion about something she had NOTHING to do with, but it’s not okay for the person actually involved to address the matter? If she had a right, then how can you imply Catherine does not? You guys sure don’t play fair.

And, that poster was encouraged by her OWN friends to pull the post. Which I think is a chickenshit thing to do. She made a post with “Controversy” in the title, made an uninformed portrayal of something she was not involved in, stated she was leaving comments unmodd’ed so readers could “yell at her all they wanted,” rolled around in the mud her own little band of followers slung, and then cowered like a poor little victim who was so abused and terrorized when dissenters spoke their minds. She said she wanted a discussion, but she caved in like a popped balloon when the discussion didn’t end the way it began-with all the minions praising her for her statement.

I didn’t see anyone who defended Catherine saying anything more hurtful about that poster than her little posse said about Catherine, but that’s okay, right, because you guys can talk shit about anyone, but if they do it back, they are just a bunch of bullies! Right! Right?

Grow up.

The bottom line is: You wouldn’t make that choice. Clap, clap, hooray, hooray for you. No one gives a shit.

And you shouldn’t give a shit that *someone else* made a different decision with *their* boobs or *their baby.*
Erin @queenofspain Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

I JUST WANTED TO SAY I LOVE CATHERINE IN ALL CAPS
sylvia Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

It hurts me, it hurts all of us. It reinforces the idea that breasts and breastfeeding hover on the very razor’s edge of shamefulness, that these things on our chests are somehow, in some way, dirty and icky and bad, unless we operate them under the very strictest rules of propriety (only if they’re covered up! only if it’s your own baby! only if it doesn’t make us uncomfortable! only if WE SAY IT’S OKAY!)

I think you need to keep saying this, loud and clear.
Jenny, the Bloggess Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:06 pm

Don’t tell anyone but the other day I let my kid drink milk. FROM A MOTHERF’ING COW. And I didn’t even *know* the cow. It was a stranger cow. God, I’m so embarrassed. Also this morning I ate raw honey straight from the hive and I’m pretty sure the bees had their asses and feet in it all day. Then I ate an egg and I was all “This was made in a lab right?” and the lady at the deli was all “Uh…no. It came from a chicken”. And I was all “FROM A CHICKEN’S VAGINA?!” THEY SERVED ME SOMETHING FROM A CHICKEN VAGINA, CATHERINE. Honestly, I wish you stop over-reacting about this breastmilk thing. You had milk. Baby needed milk. Big whoop. I HAD TO EAT SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF A VAGINA. Who’s the real victim here?
paperfairies Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:07 pm

Wow. I have NO issues whatsoever with breastfeeding, in fact, when my best friend’s baby girl was in NICU her milk hadn’t come in and I pumped for her. (the hospital screened it) It was AWESOME to be able to nourish someone I so love. You are obviously free to do what you want but the other blogger had a point. (even though she expressed it horribly) You got a tattoo a couple weeks ago, many babies are allergic to Lorazepam. (Ativan) God forbid it please, may it never happen but one doesn’t know what husbands are doing every single second. There are variables, particularly when dealing with someone you just met.

She trusted you, BEAUTIFUL, but making it seem like there were absolutely no risks involved is kinda irresponsible I think.

I love you. Know that.
J Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:09 pm

I think what you did was a great thing and I find it REALLY hard to believe that someone who was in your exact situation wouldn’t do the same thing. Would I offer my child in this situation? I’m not sure but that doesn’t mean that someone is wrong for doing so.

I didn’t read the other post but like most it was likely written to do one of two things. Vent or get a reaction and this person had no reason to vent since they were not involved. She got that reaction.
heels Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

It’s the origin of the phrase “Bosom Buddies,” I believe. I have a few friends who nursed each others children so that they could all go back to work. They worked opposite shifts and it was to everyone’s benefit. They saved on childcare, bottles, pumps, formula, and the babies got boob-juice- what could be better? Like breastfeeding in general, co-breastfeeding is a personal decision. I think Laura made an awesome decision to help you out in that way, and I think it was wonderful that you took advantage of it. I applaud you both. Also, what instantly came to mind were the stories of the (I believe) Chinese policewoman who breastfed starving babies when they couldn’t find their mothers, and of Salma Hayek breastfeeding that beautiful African child when its mother couldn’t. Are those disgusting cases too? I think not.
Naomi Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

I’ve never nursed another woman’s child nor have my kids nursed from another mommy but I have been engorged without a pump in sight, trying to get it out in the shower and if there had been a hungry baby around, I definitely would have considered it. It hurt so much, I probably would have considered nursing puppies or kittens, too. Wolf cubs even. No, not really.

I just don’t see the judgmental attitude being helpful. Obviously you don’t offer your boobs to anyone walking down the street!
BaltimoreGal Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:11 pm

I will never understand why anyone thought this was (A) wrong in any sense or (B) their business, especially without knowing the facts.
I am not a mother, hopefully I will be. My mom breastfed, although I doubt her mom did- things change, right?. I grew up seeing women breastfeed their children. It was normal to me. My friend w/babies breastfeeds and I’ve seen it. BIG DEAL. It’s a kid eating. Who cares from what or where as long as it is good for the kid? Maybe the poster in question is older and can’t relate to seeing it outside her own little box. Different is not wrong, it is just different.

I also feel bad for Laura. To have her responsibility and motherhood questioned like that by an uninformed stranger? It’s ridiculous. Especially when children are being abused and killed by their own parents in our backyards. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/01/14/ST2009011402052.html?sid=ST2009011402052
amy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:12 pm

It sickens me that what you and Laura chose to do should be anything more than a mundane, nurturing moment-in-mothering choice. Moreover, it was Laura’s and your choice. So folks should lay off the judging, whether or not they agree or would do the same. I applaud you for posting your story – both to open people’s eyes to what is possible, and to expose the anti-nursing attitudes that still abound. I’m sorry that you were on the receiving end of some pretty hateful messages.
Miss Grace Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:12 pm

Skipping all previous comments in the interest of not getting any angrier than I was reading that post last night, Catherine, you’ve done the best job of defending yourself. All that matters is that you’re comfortable with yourself and your own choices.
Bravo.
T. Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

In my real life, I wear a hat that has all these L’s on it…makes me a leader or something. I can’t spell it out due to insurance reasons.

And their “official” position would be don’t do it. For safety, yada yada.

BUT I say, you rock. I love that you did this, love that you wrote about it. Catherine, you are amazing. What makes you amazing is that you think you are not amazing.

T@SendChocolate
Lesha Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

It’s not terribly surprising though that one mother could easily berate another mother for her choice to allow someone else to nurse her child. When we berate other mothers for their choice of stroller or daycare or if they co-sleep (or don’t) or babywear (or don’t). It’s not just this one choice that ends up being thrown around as “less than”. For every choice a mom makes there seems to be another mom ready to pounce and put that decision down as wrong or shameful or sub-par parenting.

We as moms need to just stop with the judgements. Yes, it’s the internet, we can put out there whatever we want, but why are we when it’s hurtful? What do we have to gain except for a few more blog followers or a boost to our self esteem. What’s the point?

I’m not trying to make this into a bigger discussion, but it really is part of a whole larger issue we as moms seem to have.
sassymonkey Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

Catherine you rock. And if Laura is reading this, she rocks too.
Gina Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

People disgust me. I recently wrote a post that was inspired in part by comments I heard about Salma Hayak breastfeeding a baby not her own. I am sick to death of tanned, oiled boobs being shoved in my face by the media 24/7 and yet when they are used for what they are intended people lose their shit.

I think what you and Laura did was awesome, and totally normal.
Isabel Kallman Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

What saddens me most about this whole situation is that I have yet to meet one mom who has never doubted at least one parenting decision she has made. I truly believe the majority of us beat ourselves up every single day for perfectly sensible decisions.

How can we ever learn to trust our own instincts when there are so many mothers out there waiting to criticize us and make us doubt ourselves?
Deb on the Rocks Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:16 pm

Wow.

I’m speechless after reading this comment thread. But I’m glad women speak their minds. Viva la blog.

You (and Salma) put the Wet in Wet Nurse. Rock on. How much are the Her Bad Mother’s Milk Bar /Happy Hour When Engourged! t-shirts? Want, XXL please.

(But no wonder marketers are a bit confused by “digital women,” right?)
Shannon Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:17 pm

I have 2 preemies, a 26 and 31 weeker. My milk supply did not come in as I had hoped. I was only able to provide breastmilk to them for about 3 months. The stuff is liquid gold especially for preemies. I would have gladly handed them over to you for the much needed nourishment that I was unable to provide.
Rosemarie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:20 pm

Long time lurker – first time poster – I felt compelled to comment on this post – I find the other poster quite childish – if she had a problem with what you were doing she should have said something to your face – not hide behind a blog post to criticize you. I (although not a breast feeder when my son was born) find absolutely nothing wrong with you sharing with another mothers child – you both did a good thing – the criticizer should be the one who is ashamed.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:21 pm

I didn’t read all the comments so I apologize if this has already been said, but the BOTTOM LINE HERE is that this was a decision between YOU and LAURA and nobody else’s business. Period. You both agreed to an arrangement that benefitted everyone involved and BRAVO to you both for being such smart, generous, caring, thoughtful women. Now, wouldn’t it be nice if everyone could be that way??? I really fail to see what the big deal is here. And I definitely fail to understand why that blogger thought it was any of her business to go off on you for what YOU choose to do with YOUR boobs and what Laura chose to do with letting you nurse her hungry baby. I mean, really, WTF? Sigh. Frustrating…. Just know that you (and Laura) are supported by many, many people.
Pascale
Amanda Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:21 pm

I am even more resolved in my f-bomb laden comment on your facebook page. This was just such a natural thing. I think in the scheme of things, when we look at all that gets done and passed off as acceptable in the world, that this, this act was what has motivated someone to step forward and scream, “Not ok!” well, it just really makes me worry about the way people are gauging rights and wrongs.

Pop in a baby bottle. Smoking on a playground. No seatbelts. Infidelity. Stealing. Slander. I mean there are just so many, many things and yet it was this thing that should not have even been on their radar that did this.

Gack!

And, what Heather said. I am just north of Albany. Come. Please. Stay. Kids can play. Whatever. Do come. And do disregard these foolish, foolish people.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

paperfairies worded it better than me.
Lesha Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

The more I think about this situation, the more I think that Laura is the ultimate in rock. I could easily see myself in your shoes and I could easily see myself nursing someone else’s child. I have a much harder time seeing myself letting someone else nurse my child. Plus I think how OLD my baby is would play a part. Infant, baby, easier to see me being fine with it. At that stage the nursing is primarily a hungry=get food response. Later one, towards a year or older when I nursed my son it was more for comfort. HE probably wouldn’t have been as open to another person nursing him either, because the bewbs=mommycomfort, not just comfort.

Excellent food for thought HBM, pun definitely intended.
Nenette AM Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:23 pm

You = awesome
Love ya for doing that… and kudos to Laura too.

Good for you, girl!
xoxo
katelin@m80im.com Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:26 pm

seriously catherine you are awesome. and laura is just as awesome and for anyone to comment and make sure horrible remarks without knowing either of you is just wrong. i’m glad you wrote this.
Jana Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

My mother did not breastfeed me, but once during my babyhood she allowed me to nurse at the breast of an engorged friend of hers. My mom never thought a second thought about it, and it didn’t seem strange at all to her circle of friends.

Seriously, when are people going to get over the boobs?
Kris Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

When I first saw your first tweet about having nursed someone else’s baby, I was on the phone with my best friend. Is hared it with her, and got one of the most negative reactions I have ever heard. I had told her, because I thought it was the best thing I had heard, that someone was nice enough to take you out of your misery.

Had I been there, you could have borrowed my daughter. Heck, if you let me take a nap while you nursed her, I’d be your friend for life.
Mama Smurf Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:29 pm

I was wondering what all the twitter drama was about…I missed it all in real time.

*cue standing ovation and loud/obnoxious applause*
Momily Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:29 pm

Fascinating, thought-provoking and I have to admit I find it all a bit weird. Out of my comfort zone, I guess. The logical side of me knows that it’s “no big whoop,” that there would be minimal risk, that there is probably more risk with the formula that I feed my baby, than with a relative stranger’s breast milk. Still, I can’t get past the idea of letting my baby drink from a relative stranger. I also find it so interesting that our modern and permissive society has hang-ups with this, but going back in history to much more conservative times and Puritancial times “wet nurses” were a normal thing.

I think the comments about HIV/AIDs are also very thought-provoking. Those commenters are right – we need to get past AIDS=DIRTY. It is a hard thing to do.

I would like to comment more, but don’t feel it is appropriate to do so without having read the other blogger’s post. Did you provide a link and I just missed it or something?
Immoral Matriarch Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:30 pm

I am hyperventilating at Jenny’s comment. OMG She’s insane. And sooooooo right on!
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

Amen to you sister!

I’d have done the same thing in a heartbeat, whether I had been in your shoes or in Laura’s. That’s what our bodies are meant to do. And that’s why I donated my breast milk when my boobs went into overdrive with my first child.

Milk-filled breasts are dirty and unsanitary? Please! They are beautiful and part of the miracle that is life.
beanski Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

Nice work!

I have a friend that got a ton of extra milk pumping and donated it to starving kids…there are programs for it. Breast milk is like liquid gold for any baby, yours or someone else’s. I think Laura’s baby was as lucky as you were.

I also can not imagine going more than a few hours without nursing or pumping. Ouch. I would probably let a bum on the street nurse just to make the throbbing stop.
Kat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

That fistfull of fish whatever lady has issues. Too bad she decided to splay them all over the internet in a hurtful manner. What a fucked up thing to do. I hope she has read this post and all the comments here and feels ashamed of herself.

Wet-nursing has been an honest profession for a very long time. I donated breast milk when my son was little to a friend who couldn’t breastfeed her newborn. I didn’t breastfeed her baby myself, but I would have, happily.

Laura was lovely and so very trusting and generous to help you out and to not have repressed neurosis on the subject. Lovely.
Elizabeth Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

No comments about the other post, which I didn’t see, but damn, I could’ve used some friends like you guys when my son spent his first 22 months on earth screeching hard enough to alert the authorities every time there was not a lactating breast in his immediate vicinity. 2.5 years later and I’m still so damn tired…
Jane Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:33 pm

OMG. I am just furious reading this. If I knew you better, I’d be cussing loudly.

For all of our education, America is still a land of hand-wringing idiots. Wet nurses have been around since the beginning of time. My grandmother nursed children who were not her own. My great-grandmother, and every other nursing mothers, nursed children in the death camps. I have a friend who adopted who took drugs and pumped so she could breast-feed a child not biologically her own.

Women and men — but especially women who find this repugnant need to get the hell over themselves. In addition, how many of OUR mothers smoked, downed coffee and breastfed? Children lived and we got better education. However, when education turns into stupidity, maybe it’s time to question its validity.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

I am posting this anonymously, I know that it generally takes away from the validity of the expressed position, but so be it.

I’m uncomfortable with the situation. It’s not something that I would have chosen to do in the spur of the moment, from either your perspective or Laura’s. Would I have felt differently if you were all stuck on an elevator and the baby had no access to food? Yes. Would I have felt differently if Laura was sick and needed to take medications that weren’t safe for nursing? Yes. It’s that it was a matter of convenience that just rubs ME the wrong way. Do I think I’m wrong? Ignorant? Stupid? A bitch? No. It’s just the way I feel. To each his own, you do what you’re comfortable with.

I firmly believe in blood donations, milk donations, etc. both to be given and received and in doing so, screened for infections and diseases. My desire to have things screened would be in no part a reflection on you or your habits, but rather as a person who has only had one sexual partner, no history of IV drug use, no history of a transfusion, etc. and had an antibody scare about a year ago. It’s no social stigma, it’s that shit can happen to anyone. To me, situations of dire necessity would supersede these concerns, so it’s a matter of the two people involved in the situation assessing what a dire need is.

What really disturbs me is that this issue hasn’t turned into a war of what’s right and what’s wrong, but rather a war of which blogger has the most vociferous followers. Mean things have been said on both sides of the issue. Comments on both posts have crossed the line. Both bloggers have framed it from their perspectives with their feelings. Maybe each side didn’t necessarily like the other, but that doesn’t validate the vitriol that has been traded back and forth in the comments on both sides.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:35 pm

paperfairies – a couple of registered nurses have weighed in here to say that the risks are really minimal. Breastmilk is not blood, nor is it semen, nor is it urine, nor is it even saliva. It is MADE to counteract the bad stuff. Even mothers with very serious illnesses are encouraged to nurse their babies. Breastmilk is designed for health.

Obviously, that doesn’t mean that we treat it blithely. But we shouldn’t treat anything blithely, and we should be cautious about equating breastfeeding with, say, sharing heroin needles. Laura and I spoke about the risks. They seemed minimal. She was comfortable with the situation. End of the day, her trusting me to nurse her baby was very probably no more risky than giving the baby tap water, or borrowing formula, or accepting food served by a handwash-sloppy server.

Seriously, we need to keep reasonable heads about this.

(and, I get the love. thx!)
Alli Worthington { @fussypants } Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

{giggles}
Yeah, what Jenny said.

Seriously, you didn’t tell everyone that we traded babies at Blissdom?
Amo Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

I want a ‘Her Bad Mother’s Milk Bar’ shirt! I’ll wear it at BlogHer!

But it should probably mention The Blogess’ traumatic chicken-vagina incident as well. Poor thing.
mothergoosemouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

Chickens have vaginas? And they lay eggs in PUBLIC?

*faints*
Leighann Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

I don’t have a judgment one way or the other. If you were comfortable and the other mother was comfortable, who are we to judge? Selma Hyak did it and she was applauded. For eons there were wet nurses.

When we were at Camp Baby, I dutifully pumped as often as I needed to, to not only relieve myself of the pressure, but also to keep up my meager supply.

When it was time to leave, I got a call from the airline that my flight was canceled. I rushed to the airport to try to catch an earlier flight, or be stuck in NJ maybe overnight with no place to stay.

I only had the one carry-on piece plus my tote bag. The flight was so full that a person met me at the gate saying I was lucky to even get the seat and I had to hand over my piece of luggage.

All I could think about was getting back home.

And then it dawned on me at 3,000 feet (or however high in the skies we were) that my pump was in the bag now residing beneath the plane.

I had a layover of indeterminate length in Chicago. I was in increasing pain.

There was a couple with a baby a few rows ahead of me. All I could think about was that baby.

As we landed the baby began to fuss. People were very slow to exit. The baby fussed more.

I wanted to say, “Excuse me, would you mind if I nursed your baby for a few minutes…you know, just to calm her and relieve my pressure?”

But I didn’t.

What I did do was exit as quickly as possible, run straight to the counter, and beg the attendant to see if she could get my bag.

She asked what it looked like. Um, black, like everyone else’s.

Oh, oh! I tied a pink bandana to the handle.

The woman said she would see what she could do and went down the ramp.

A line was forming behind me. People tapped their feet, annoyed at the wait.

A good five minutes later she emerged with my bag. And my pump. And she directed me to a family bathroom with an outlet.

I was so thankful and finally relieved.

I didn’t arrive back to my home for another three hours and there was no way in hell I could have lasted that long.

Long story short, I can completely understand where you were coming from.
Mrs.Messiness Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:43 pm

If your baby falls down and skins his knee, I will band-aide and kiss his boo-boo, if you can’t. I hope you would do the same for mine.

If your baby needed to be cuddled and adored and you were unable to do it, for whatever reason, I would do it for you. I hope you would do the same for mine.

If your baby was hungry and needed to eat, I would nourish him – I hope you would do the same from mine. And if you were sitting next to me in pain and I knew I could ease it? I would. Obviously, you would do the same.

We are moms – that makes us not strangers in the eyes of our babies, but heros with boobies.

Good for you and good for Laura – moms being moms at a mom convention – who’da thought?
Sarah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:46 pm

I believe the whole situation was between you and Laura and everyone else should stay the FUCK OUT OF IT. (OMG, I can’t beleive I just cursed on someone else’s blog, but I am so sick of everybody being so mean to everybody else.) I don’t know what I would have done, never being in that situation, but my first thought on reading your story was what an awesome person Laura was for helping someone she just met out and someone else had to ruin her nice gesture because of thier issues. Grow up!
lorrielink Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

well i missed all the drama since i dont know the other blog but im sorry you had someone who doesnt even know you or what you were doing post rudeness and ignorance about it.

as a nursing mother, you know you will always always run into these people. always.
i dont care how much the breastfeeding laws have changed, or the press or the ‘commeness’ about it. its still a big issue for so many people almost everywhere.

im on my second son. i breastfed my first till he was 2 and a half. and that was 9 yrs ago. when it was still illegal to breastfeed in public.
now im on my second who turned 2 last december and i cant imagine him *ever* considering weaning givin his appetite. i call him my little ‘conan’ (the barbarian, not the talk show host);)
so even women whom had been all “yay breastfeeding” hit judgemental road bumps when my kid could verbally ask for a nursing. go figure.

im so glad you post about this. its not nearly as commonly accepted as we would like it to be and it needs to be talked about. im so glad to see so many awesome women commenting here.
anyone who has never experianced engorged painful breasts have no place judging your actions at all. its a dabilatating pain. period.

*hugs* screw that chick. forget about her, you know she has bigger problems than you if shes so out of touch with this subject and with herself for slamming someone esle. she has a further road to walk than you to get to a good place. she may not have intended all the hurt this caused, may have had no idea this was so personal, so judgemental. it sucks when a lesson has to be learned the hard way.

hey, that was kinda judgemental of me huh? =)
fragileheart Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

“Outraged” doesn’t begin to describe how I feel about what happened to you. There is passing judgement on others and then there’s passing judgement on others. That person who wrote the defiling blog post about you should be stoned.

Who the hell are they? If they’re uncomfortable with it then they should make sure they never find themselves in the same position that you and Laura were in. But to spread negativity about your situation (which, she knew NOTHING about) is beyond irresponsible.

I can’t say that I would have done the same thing you have (I’ve never had children so I have no idea of the pain you describe) but that doesn’t mean I’m going to spread nasty things about you on the world wide web.

I can only hope that Karma serves them something real nice in the near future.
Janet Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

The drama is almost too much to bear, isn’t it?

You and Laura, two consenting adults, agreed that you nursing her baby was a solid solution to your out-of-control engorgement. That should be the end of the story. One can agree or not agree; see oneself doing the same thing, or not. But, really, it’s nobody else’s business.

Ah, but social networking suddenly *makes* it everyone’s business. And now we see the ragged underbelly of the social networking beast. When I started typing this comment I was #209.

Children are being abused.

People are losing their jobs.

Families don’t have enough food to eat.

People are living on the street.

Imagine if we poured some of our energy and outrage into these issues. Just imagine.
Heather! Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:48 pm

jenny just ruined eggs for me forevah.

A couple years back I donated my freezer stash through the Milkshare YG. Same diff, yk?

You did a lovely thing.
verybadcat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:49 pm

Holy crap. What a shitstorm over nothing.

My Mom and her BFF had kids around the same time, and if one sat for the other, they fed too. Wet nurses- it used to be that if a Mom was wealthy enough, she never fed her own kid! Her wet nurse did it for her.

What you did, HBM is NORMAL. And we need you to do it, and to tweet about it and post about it. Because when I finally get myself knocked up, you’ll have pushed every bit of fear, shame and doubt I have right the hell out of my head. Keep on keepin’ on. I need someone to believe in.

Hell, I would feed your kid. Except I can’t, because my boobies aren’t magical yet. And I don’t have a kid for you to feed. But you understand what I’m saying.

Would pay cash monies to go back to Friday of last week, take people who are SO GROSSED OUT by what you did, and show them an article about a freakin’ PIG nursing a PUPPY, and see how they REACTED TO THAT.

Something tells me they wouldn’t have had two words to say about it. But you feeding another human child? DIRTY.

F*ck the naysayers.
Annie @ PhD in Parenting Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

For me the real problem here lies in her judging what is right for you and Laura, for Laura’s baby and for your boobs. It is none of her business. Period.

Your boobs hurt. Laura offered her baby. You were both comfortable with that and that is great.

Personally, I don’t think I would nurse another woman’s baby and I don’t think I’d let anyone else nurse mine. I say “I don’t think” because there could always be a situation that would cause me to change my mind.

My reasons for not doing it is the AIDS/disease factor. The fact is that even if I do trust another woman, I have to ask whether I really trust her husband. Can I be sure that he hasn’t been sneaking around and given her some disease. And while I feel confident enough that my husband isn’t sneaking around and therefore giving me some disease, there is always the remote possibility that I am wrong to trust him and if I nursed someone else’s baby that I could infect them. Sure, I would also be infecting my baby in that instance as well, but I have to take that chance. I don’t, however, have to take the chance with someone else’s baby (or at least haven’t been put in that position yet).

If I ever did do mom-to-mom donation or nursed someone else’s baby, especially in the litigious society of the United States, I would probably want a legal document in place first to ensure that person wasn’t going to sue me if I did in fact pass along some disease I didn’t know I had.

But…it isn’t my place to judge anyone else’s choice, level of trust, etc.
EmC Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

Catherine–

I just wanted to be another positive/supportive drop in the bucket. As someone who has never breastfed a child, the situation weirds me out a little, but the more I rationally consider it, the less of an issue it seems.

It amazes me how heated people can become over a situation that has nothing to do with them. Obviously by writing this post and opening comments you are inviting opinions about the topic, but there’s no need to judge or shame anyone.

Your blog is wonderful and I love following you on twitter. I hope your week picks up after all this.
G Love Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

Not sure you need another comment, but here’s mine!

As a nursing mom, I would nurse another woman’s child to relieve my pain in a heartbeat. It hurts so bad. As the mother of a nursing 10 month old, I probably would not let a new-met friend nurse my baby I don’t think. But someone I knew relatively well, I would definitely do it. I think the choice you and Laura made was fine and dandy, but I’m also not at all surprised that someone found it gross. I have been chastised for nursing my own son, sitting in the corner of a dead end 50 feet from the main hall with a neck to knees black cape over us, my back to the main hall, and my mother sitting between me and any people that might wander by. Folks is just uptight about this shizz.

I read one comment someone left about an experienced baby nursing with a new mom, while the experienced mom nurses the new baby. I considered offering this to my sister in law when she had her daughter, but decided not to offer because i was pretty sure she would NOT find it ok. But I’m kind of a granola chewing tree hugging hippie, I guess.
Peggy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

Holy Crap! What planet have I been on that I missed all of this!

Catherine, you were right…the other person was wrong! So wrong!

You throw a good party over here!
Innocent Observer Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

I was so excited reading the first half oh your post. How awesome! What a relief that we are evolving!

The second half, not so much. Mothers crapping on mothers; I don’t really get it. Milk from the UDDER of a COW is SO MUCH more appealing. Remind me to choose that next time. Geesh.
fragileheart Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:52 pm

p.s. I’d like to write a letter to Goldfish so if you could email me more details I would love you for it (contact [at] fragileheart [dot] com).

Outraged, I tell you!
Marty, a.k.a. canape Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

Dadgum. I guess if nursing another baby is gross and disgusting then I might want to forgo posting about nursing my hubby?

I’m a naughty mommy.

I saw your first Tweet about nursing someone else’s baby in real time, Catherine. Shook my head and knew there would be fallout for you. Am shocked though, that it came from someone at the conference. Thought it would be from someone who saw your Tweet and just ran ignorantly with it. In person ignorance is far more appalling.
Jerri Ann Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

and here I was thinking I was some kind of hero because I offered to go to the store and buy some children’s tylenol for your baby and look what you’ve gone and done…yes, humanitarian, even if I can’t spell that or Selma or what ever her name is…you go girl!
Anyabeth Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 2:56 pm

I really do not get the Hate on this. My mother breastfed both my sister and I. And . . .our cousins when she babysat for them. Was completely normal in our family circle. If the mother is ok with it (volunteering) and Catherine is ok with it and the baby clearly was ok with it WHY is this a big political issue?

This is about feeding children. How is feeding a child gross? Ever?
seph Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

i would have done the exact same thing in your shoes. and in laura’s shoes too. i would’ve handed over my always hungry, boob-loving son to your overflowing milk without batting an eyelash.

screw the crazy spaz women who calm their own insecurities by publicly humiliating others.

oh, how i long for a society without such a tragic breastfeeding phobia!
geeklady Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

I feel your pain vis a vis engorgement – only I never have problems getting milk OUT. I’ve been known to have milk shoot out up to a foot from my boobs, through a wool nursing pad, bra, and blouse.

Laura was extremely kind to you, and I could hug her for it. That level of engorgement sucks.

But I also sit here and not know what I would have done. It doesn’t bother me to think about nursing or otherwise providing milk for a baby that needs it. I want to think I would have offered to let you nurse GeekBaby (at your own risk, he has 6 teeth and a contrary nature). But I just don’t know. This is going to bug me for days, I just know it.

@kateypie I’m way confused with you equating drinking 20 diet cokes with doing some sort of drug or other risky behavior. Granted, diet coke tastes yucky, and there’s some debate in the scientific community over whether artificial sweeteners contribute to obesity by interfering with the body’s ability to accurately sense its calorie intake, but other than that aspartame is benign.
Amy Jo Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:02 pm

I have nothing to say except RIGHT ON!
ThisFullHouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

I am so glad to have worked up the courage to walk up to you at BlogHer ‘08 and say “I love how you write!” With baby in tow and everything, you did NOT even flutter an eyelash, you were so kind and wonderful. But, you’re readers already know that. Good on you, Momma!
Jessica Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

I think we all want what’s best for our children. And as mothers, we generally want what’s best for all children. Funny, though, that my idea of ‘best’ and someone else’s idea of ‘best’ might be so vastly differently. For what it’s worth, I have offered my breastmilk to mothers who either weren’t able or weren’t willing to nurse their own babies. Nobody ever took me up on the offer, but that was their choice. Conversely, I don’t think I would be comfortable giving my baby someone else’s milk, but I’ve not been in a position of need.
Lora Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

Good for you. I would nurse another baby in a minute, and if my baby needed fed and was in the care of someone I knew and trusted was drug and disease free (seriously tho, would you be a nursing mom if you WEREN’T, I think not) I would beg her to feed my child. It’s what we are supposed to do as women.
ThisFullHouse Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

See, I’m so flustered for you, I can’t even spell…but, “your” readers already know that
CheekySweetie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

I just want to point out to the posters who have said it isn’t something they would do, but they have respected other people’s right to choose otherwise are awesome. You don’t have to agree to be tolerant of others’ choices.
livinginagirlsworld Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:09 pm

I am so sorry that you were so hurt by this unnecessary judgement. I commend you and Laura for doing what was right by each other.

My basic philosphy on life is, if you don’t walk in someone else’s shoes, you shouldn’t judge them.
Sara Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:09 pm

If you had nursed the baby because the baby’s mother was unable to nurse, I’d be 100% supportive of it. You nursed to relieve your own engorgement, and so I’m.. Ahh.. Oh… About 99% supportive of it.

I donated milk to 3 different babies/moms, and even though I had my blood work done just before donating, they never asked to see it and when I showed it to them they breezed over it. One of them basically said this: If I didn’t trust you, no amount of paperwork would make me trust you. Talking to you is what makes me trust you. The test results are extra.

Even with moms that have AIDS or other illness that nurse their babies day in, day out, their infants are very unlikely to become sick from mom’s milk. They’re more likely to become ill while being gestated or born.

A breastfed baby’s gut is properly closed, full of antibodies, full of stem cells, full of probiotics.

Breastmilk of another woman is less likely to be contaminated with disease-causing bacteria or viruses than formula is.

I probably wouldn’t have loaned my baby to you and would have suggested hand expressing some milk (and offered to show you how) or loaned you the breast pump that I travel with instead. But that’s just me. (Besides which, my son fixated on “me” at around 6mos and wouldn’t nurse on anything else including bottles/pacifiers, so he’d probably be pretty much useless unless he was ravenous and I wasn’t around.)

Laura was awesome to loan the baby to you, and you were awesome to be able to get past the weirdness of society and nurse a baby that wasn’t your own.
Cassi Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:11 pm

I would’ve done the same thing had I been in your or Laura’s position. Thank you for being brave!!
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:11 pm

@geeklady – perhaps Diet Coke was a bad example…HA! I wasn’t equating it to hard drugs – just naming examples of things many nursing women ingest freely that I personally do not ingest while nursing.

Which is exactly why I would not let a stranger nurse my child. I just don’t trust someone I just met to be as careful as I am. And I have a right to that opinion/feeling durnit!
I avoid artificial sweeteners, caffeine, do not smoke or drink, am not on any medications, etc. I did get a tattoo though.

For the record, I do not think Catherine is digusting, dirty, filthy, gross, unsanitary, etc. I think this whole thing is getting completely out of hand. I have had several women e-mail me who feel the same way I do (would not let a stranger nurse their child for valid health concerns) but they are too afraid to voice that opinion on here for fear of being attacked.

The internet sucks a lot sometimes, doesn’t it?
Sarah Yost Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:11 pm

I nursed another baby once. You know why? No good reason, other than bravado and because the other mom and I wanted to see what would happen, what it would be like.

What it was like was weird having another baby’s lips on my (baby’s) breast. I felt the warm rush that comes when I hope people don’t find out what I’m doing.

Theoretically, I think it’s FINE. I’m not ashamed of doing it, and I wouldn’t take it back.

It reinforced how intimate it is to nurse my baby. Her lips are different than the other child’s, her suck stronger and narrower. My baby’s body felt different curled into me than the other baby. My baby is mine and while nursing her I study every inch of her little body, her being and know just when her eyes will roll in the back of her head, sated and sleepy.

Still, I don’t think I’d let another mom nurse mine unless I really trusted that she was free of strange substances and diseases which is the only possibly valid issue with casual nursing, as far as I’m concerned.

Not that what you do with your body and baby is ANY of my business or anyone else’s.
Sierra Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:17 pm

BRAVA! BRAVA! BRAVA!

I'm not a mother. I'm *only* a young twenty-something who respects and appreciates them. I was a breastfed baby myself (until age 3), and have been surrounded with nursing mothers (at work, friends, family) my entire life. It is not strange to me, or foreign.

My own mother nursed a good friend's baby while she was watching her one day. I was still nursing at the time (we were no more than a year old) and the friend asked my mom to nurse her daughter. No strange request…we were both almost exclusively breastfed at that point and she was leaving her child for a whole day! Nothing weird about that.

I applaud you, Catherine. It's all already been said, so I won't try to restate it…but YOU ARE AWESOME. As are your [perfectly healthy, normal, baby-feeding] boobs!

<3
jodifur Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:17 pm

2 consenting adult consented to something. A mother consented for her child. Why do we care?
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

KateyPie – I think that I’ve been clear here that I have no problem with disagreement. I fully support any mother’s right to say that she wouldn’t do it.

The issue here is whether it’s okay to shame ME for doing it. And I say it’s not. This has never been about me wanting to stop discussion – in fact, if I had posted about this absent the controversy surrounding the other post, I would have asked my readers the question directly. Because I’m interested to know.

I just ask that discussion be respectful. It was not respectful, at the other blogger’s blog. It was shaming. And she misrepresented what she saw to fuel that discussion.

WRONG.
Melamalie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

(note: the original post was taken down before I could read it)

I’m imagining a scenario:

I’m out in public.
I see someone doing something that makes me uncomfortable.
It’s not major enough for me to walk up and say something directly, but it sticks with me.
I worry about the safety of the children involved.
I think and think and think.
I wonder if this is something I should tell my blog-readers about.

So what do I do?

Option 1: Read. Educate myself. Learn about what I witnessed. Research the safety, the ethics, the opinions. Figure out if the things that made me uncomfortable were true, or just my opinion. Only then would I post about it on a blog – and then I would post what I had learned. I wouldn’t attack the character of the people involved, or deliberately spread and encourage misinformation. I would report what made me uncomfortable, why it made me uncomfortable, what I’d learned, and what my opinion on the subject was, and I’d do so in a way that protected the identity (as much as possible) of those involved. And then I’d moderate comments to keep the tone respectful.

Option 2: Post a hate-filled blog post, encourage flaming, and avoid moderating comments, including those spreading hate and misinformation.

I think if the original blog post had been more like option #1, this would be a discussion about the health and safety of sharing boobies, rather than a full on character-assassination/defence.

Bravo, Catherine, for staying cool and writing an intelligent and well-thought-out post. You have enough supporters here that you could have said, “OMG SHE HURT MY FEELINGS” and got a “posse” of supporters, but instead you took the oportunity try to start an intelligent discussion. Good for you.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:20 pm

Recently I was at a party were a group of women were discussing Selma Hyack(?) breastfeeding a stranger’s baby. We all agreed there was nothing wrong with it. Generally, I have a germ phobia thing going on, but when it comes to breastfeeding babies all bets are off. I highly doubt drug-addicted prostitutes are frequenting the Parenting Conference scene. It’s time to get the message out – boobs were meant to be functional not ornamental, and who we trust with our boobs is our business! You did the right thing. Well done. -Shannon in Portland, OR
carrie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:24 pm

Oh Catherine!

I just don’t know what to say…I am honestly touched by what you did, and I see the comfort it provided you and the need it filled for Laura’s baby. You write so eloquently about this, you really do and I know how much you are hurting because of what that other person decided to blast all over the blogosphere, but know this – it is just one person’s opinion – and her people.

Truth be told, I had NEVER even heard about her before this. NEVER.

You know how I feel, I support what you did – for a variety of reasons, and while I was never as bold in my nursing days as my sisters of now, I think it is the most natural, nonsexual, normal thing in the world to do.

I was lucky it came easy to me and my children and will always remember it fondly, despite the saggage left behind.

Love to you C.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:25 pm

@HerBadMother – yes, you have voiced that well. you are open to discussion, i see that.
SupComTabz Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:26 pm

Full disclosure: I’m not a mom.

Now, I only came because of the Twitter drama and trying to figure out WHY it was drama. And really… I didn’t get why it was such a huge deal with Salma Hayek did it and I don’t think it should be a big deal that you did it.

Hundreds of years ago this would be no big deal. Wet nurses were all around. Families and communities saw nursing children as something beyond just one mom to one child.
And, as you said several times, the moment was beautiful. Not because you bonded with that child, but because there was a shared sense of nature. You were both mothers, you both had children, you hurt and she cared.

Is it really about boobs? Or is it about our insecurity as humankind that we can’t see this being a very natural, very palpable part of life?

Now, I understand concerns Laura might have about you taking meds and possibly that effecting the baby, but those were addressed and talked about. They’re no one else’s business but Laura’s.
Major Bedhead Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

Having spent 36 hours in NYC without a breast pump when my youngest was 5 months old, I would have leapt at the chance to nurse someone else’s baby. I don’t think what you did was weird or gross – it was a choice made by two adults.

I kind of feel about this the way I feel about those who don’t approve of abortion. Don’t like it? Don’t have one.
Megan@SortaCrunchy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:29 pm

My four year old is pestering the FIRE out of me to get on the computer, but I have to say this right now. Only someone who has never, ever had breasts full to the point of EXPLODING with no relief in sight would ever speak poorly of your decision. There are so many things I could say to this, but I know the pain you were in and I would have grabbed anyone – a baby or a grown man – ANYONE – who was willing to relieve the pain.
mocha beanie mummy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:29 pm

Um, can I please meet your bewbs? Cos they sound awesome. And it’s a great shame other people think they should be kept under lock and key, for fear of “soiling the nation” (yes, my words).

And I’m curious – do you think you’ll ever eat another egg again?
Krista Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

I was once out with a friend, and she realized she’d forgotten her diaper bag at home and didn’t have her baby’s formula or bottles with her. I was nursing a baby at the time, and so I nursed her baby too. It was weird, and it was neat, and I’m glad I did it, and I was REALLY glad the other baby was willing to accept that unusual situation, being an exclusively bottle-fed baby.

I wouldn’t, though, go all indignant about “my body” and “my baby” and “my choices,” because I think it’s more confusing than that kind of rhetoric makes it sound. For one thing, it’s not my baby. For another thing, it’s my body and it’s also somebody else’s body (the non-mine baby’s). For yet another thing, it’s my choice but it’s also the other mother’s choice. It sounds to me like you’re confusing this with the whole “breastfeeding is inherently disgusting” issue, which I’d say is a different issue–though obviously connected at points.

And as an above commenter said, there ARE issues with babies drinking milk from other mommies. You were aware of the issues yourself (medication, disease), but then you got kind of THERE ARE NO ISSUES EXCEPT OUR RIGHTS AS MOTHERS there at the end.
zchamu Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

Totally the last thing I’m going to say about this. Unless I say more.

Why does the original blogger seem to think it’s totally OK to say shitty things about someone as long as she didn’t name names?

Newsflash: It’s not. Especially if the person you’re saying shitty things about knows you’re saying it about them.
The Grown Up Teenager Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:32 pm

I’m a fence sitter on this one.

I don’t think the specific instance of what you did was wrong, because you agreed to it and the baby’s mother agreed to it, etc. You made the decision for yourself, she made the decision for her child. Fine and well.

Would I ever offer to nurse someone else’s baby, except in case of emergency to the baby (stranded somewhere with no bottles and Mom’s milk is dry type thing)? No. And would I pass my baby to someone I had met in the last 48 hours to nurse him or her? Not a shot in hell.

But that’s me. That’s my decision. Yours is different and I can respect that.

However, the blogger who disagrees and posted her opinion isn’t wrong to do it. The post is down, but from what I understand, she didn’t name you or link you. She wrote a post that was anti-milk sharing, not anti-breastfeeding. Personally, I think she’s just as entitled to her opinion as you are to yours.
Lotta Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:38 pm

I think you should order a few crates of milk to be delivered to her doorstep eh?
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:38 pm

Krista – I don’t think that issues concerning health and issues concerning our rights as mothers contradict each other. It is MY right to make decisions concerning the health of my children – likewise my friend Laura. We make those calls – not uninformed nosy parkers with opinions about how we SHOULD be doing things.

A mother’s right to decide how she nourishes and nurtures her child is, in my opinion, pretty paramount. Laura made an informed choice. It was hers to make. I made mine; it was mine to make. You’re welcome to disagree with those choices, but shaming us (not saying *you’re* doing this) for those choices is tantamount to trying to take our right to choose away.
mommymae Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:40 pm

WOLVERINES!!!

oh, wait, wrong blogger.

as a currently nursing mama, my boobs were in pain with every tweet i read from last weekend. once i saw that you had taken care of the engorgement, my boobs literally let down a bit b/c i could so feel where you were coming from. you are beautiful and don’t et anyone tell you any different, mama.
imaginary binky Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:41 pm

So, I’m reading through this, scratching my head, and I head over to the Fishful Thinking thingy just to see what it actually is.

“Inspire Optimism and Positive Thinking in your child.”

And then I’m thinking, um, how is that other woman’s post a reflection of that phrase?

And it’s not. Clearly, it is not.

The actions of the poster would not inspire a child, much less a forward-thinking woman or man. The only post she has up about the conference now (but wait! She’s going to repost the damning words so that more traffic and controversy will follow!) makes fun of everyone she encountered along the way, the toothless brigade and the ever-annoying hotel workers just trying to do their job.

And, again, I ask myself, how is that inspiring optimism and positivity?

Pepperidge Farm, you had a woman sitting in your Fishful Thinking conference who did exactly what you’ve asked of her: she gave selflessly to another person’s child. She inspired me and put all kinds of happy positively in my person. I think if Laura’s kid could speak, all kinds of joy would be expressed.

I won’t even begin to tell you the hilarious comments that came out of my stand-up comedian husband’s mouth after I told him about this debacle. But, seriously, you can feed my kid any time.
To Think is to Create Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:45 pm

So proud of you for all of this, every little bit. Honored to know you, woman.

xo

`Ari
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:46 pm

There seems to be a misconception on both sides that HIV, AIDS, Hep C, etc. are diseases related to social condition and behaviors. A drug-addicted prostitute can be negative and a wholesome SAHM, PTA president can be positive. That doesn’t mean hooker is clean and the PTA president is dirty. It also doesn’t mean that either person knows what their status is. These diseases are indiscriminate. They can affect everyone (even despite best efforts and practices), they are present in this world and they do need to be considered.
Lotta Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:46 pm

Holy crap! I went upstairs and then had to run back down to the computer. I hope you know I totally mean that YOU should send HER a crate of milk. Cause she’s breast milk phobic. Totally fretting that I wrote that the wrong way.

I think you are awesome. What a great moment in motherhood support turned into something awful and mean.

I’m sorry you all had to deal with this.
kateypie35 Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:47 pm

There is something that confuses me about the internet. And I swear I am not being snarky here, it really puzzles me.

Many commenters seem so up in arms that “its Catherine’s business and nobody else’s” and “why does anyone think they have the right to an opinion on this?” etc.

But, but, but…its the age of electronic media where everything you do can be broadcasted BY CHOICE to thousands of people, does that argument stand?

I mean Catherine announced her actions on Twitter knowing full well she has a huge following…she even said “I may lose followers for this…”. Isn’t she then giving her permission for people to have an opinion, and opening up the topic for discussion? (hopefuly respectful discussion.)

Do people then have the right to then slam her or be rude or mean or threatening, NO, NO of course not. That’s not what I am saying. I just don’t understand all the comments implying that we should all be just minding our own business. Seems ludicrous to me considering the whole point of Twitter. Fascinating.
Amy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:47 pm

While it’s not something I think I would choose to do, I think it’s disgusting that another mother would judge and disparage you for it. Not her business. Period.

And after all you went through in the beginning of this breastfeeding journey…look how far you’ve come!
Fiona Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

It is interesting … you have just put a face and story behind the original post that I read. I’m pretty sure I commented in the “no way” camp. After reading your post and remembering the PAIN of engorgement I see it differently.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

There seems to be a misconception on both sides that HIV, AIDS, Hep C, etc. are diseases related to social condition and behaviors. A drug-addicted prostitute can be negative and a wholesome SAHM, PTA president can be positive. That doesn’t mean hooker is clean and the PTA president is dirty. It also doesn’t mean that either person knows what their status is. These diseases are indiscriminate. They can affect everyone (even despite best efforts and practices), they are present in this world and they do need to be considered.

ADDED: I should have added that it’s the comments that are distressing me regarding this issue. The initial posts? Well, the two parents made their choices.
savvy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

You rock, Laura rocks, boobs rock!
chermonblie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

Yeah for Laura being an open minded caring mama. Shame on whatsherbutt for speaking anything but praise about a nursing mother! Hopefully one day she will realize that she’s part of the problem!

Good for you! I’ve been nursing for 20 months and wonder if the wrath of my toddler might be worse than my own if the boobs were deemed unfit for public display!

My child’s need will always come before “their” comfortability! (is that a word?!)
madgetastic Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

I wonder if that woman has ever been badly engorged, or even nursed for that matter. Because I’ve been there and, let me tell you, I would have nursed a rabid dog to relieve the pain.

You took the much more sane and tender route. BRAVA!
Sarah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

what is the original article? I would love to read it.
Eva Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:01 pm

Other people are weird. This is totally reasonable. Is nobody aware that this is totally normal in many societies?
C Lo Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:02 pm

PHEW! finally figuring out what all those tweets are about! I *looove* being outside the clique. (sarcasm)

1) KatiePie35 is right……..if a popular blogger does something, she can do no wrong. Blogging is now the grown up version of high school. People are practically falling overthemselves to suck Catherines tiddays because she’s popular. And no one will tell her she’s wrong because if they do they will be bullied. And of course the bullies try to justify and deny their bullying. Oy.

2) That said…….it’s really sad that she even had to make this post. It seems to me these days the worse sexism against women is perpetrated by other women. When is it EVER ok to imply that a peer is some disgusting, depraved, vagrant? I think the whole thing just takes us down a notch…both sides, sorry. This isn’t a big deal. Making it a big deal, making us take sides, making it a popular girl issue just disrespects the whole thing.

When are we going to stop giving a crap what other people do with their boobies? I mean, seriously. Just do try to make ME nurse off you, and we’re all good.
Robyn - Chique*Life Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:04 pm

I sent a note to Pepperidge Farm expressing how aghast I am that this unknown freak blogger is affiliated with the company.

Hi – I’m writing in to let you know how appalled I am at one of your “Fishful Thinking” bloggers. In truth, I don’t know her name, but her hateful message is bouncing around the internet linked to YOUR company.

Catherine Connors, who blogs as Her Bad Mother, attended a recent event of yours and privately, quietly nursed a baby. The problem, in your blogger’s eyes? THE BABY WAS NOT HERS.

And so a negative, hateful diatribe was written, with no conversation with or input from the participants. Is this the kind of person you want representing your company?

Catherine has class, and has not revealed the name or blog of the offending party. But I’m sure you can find out pretty easily.

I trust you will take appropriate action.

Campbell’s used to be a client of mine – and they take comments pretty seriously.

I’m sorry that some Americans are so narrow and self-righteous and that you were exposed to this.
Frances Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:08 pm

I give this post 2 thumbs up.

You go girl.

Had I been there in the same position? I would’ve offered you my daughter too.
Awake In Rochester Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:09 pm

I read the other post, and I think that your both overreacting. It’s not worth starting WW3 over. Neither is it worth losing a friend over.
TheFeministBreeder Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:19 pm

I think this is one of the coolest things I’ve ever heard. I’m not sure who I’m more proud of… the woman for offering (I certainly would have been hesitant, in the off-chance that the woman might have been more like the “offended” mothers and would have slapped down my offer and run away screaming) – or you, for accepting. Either way. Cool stuff.

http://thefeministbreeder.typepad.com
C Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:19 pm

I think it’s awesome that (A) Laura offered and (B) you accepted.

My daughter was very very ill when she was a week old and almost died. She spent 3 weeks in the hospital and then needed (and continues to need supplementary calories because she is behind in her growth and only eats about 2/3rds of the ounces she’s supposed to in a day based on her weight).

I’ve been pumping since her birth, as we also had issues with latch initially. She now screams bloody murder at the boob so I’ve only ever been able to breastfeed her a handfull of times, sadly.

I am also cursed with low supply, maxing at 16 oz a day no matter what. My best friend had a son a few days after I had my daughter and she was incredibly generous to offer her excess supply to us. If Elanor would latch I would have happily handed her over, or if her son needed nursing, I would do it in a heartbeat if I could.

I will admit that before I went through this I might have thought the situation was “icky”…but having my daughter has helped me grow as a person in so many ways. Today I stand up and applaud you.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:19 pm

I read the post in question and commented before it was taken down.

I have no problem with the blogger in question disagreeing with cross nursing. Hell, CATHERINE doesn’t have a problem with her having with that opinion.

There is a difference between voicing an opinion and hurling shame and judgment at someone else for making a different choice than you would make.

I have made an ass of myself in this very forum about breastfeeding and she was kind and compassionate about hang ups that I have and talked it out with me, even though I was disagreeing with her statements.

THAT is true discourse and so far from what was written on that other blog it isn’t even funny.

There was no possibility of true discourse about nursing over there because of many things.

First, the timbre of the piece. “Rent-a-boobie”? Implying that some incompetent woman at a small blogging conference who was unable to hand express or find a breast pump whipped out her boob and and asked to nurse some random baby?

Very few people wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon of “HUH?!” the way she described it. But that is sooooo far from what went down.

Also, it was so full of descriptions and situations and thinly veiled, that even though she didn’t NAME her, Catherine was immediately identified. With the tone of the piece and things being said? There was very little chance was it not going to be personal.

For the author to cry confusion about this now is naive at best.

The bloggers attitude in response to this bothers me a LOT. She is highly unapologetic for anything. Flabbergasted people could take such offense to “an opinion”. That she did nothing wrong. That it was her blog and she had a right to her opinion!

It wasn’t “The opinion” that is pissing most of us off, chicka. It was the way it all went down. The way it was presented and the way she did nothing to step in when gross exaggerations and allegations happened. (She made a few doozies herself.)

Honestly? It’s like she was sitting in a crowded theater and smelled smoke from the next door BBQ place and yelled OMG! I SMElL SMOKE! and then is shocked and awed and takes no accountability for the hurt and injury because DUH! There WAS NO FIRE! No real threat!

It was just bad, bad blogging all the way around. And NOT the GOOD kind of Bad that is Her Bad Mother.
Elisabeth Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:20 pm

Hi Catherine

I love your blog and read it daily. You are a great writer.

I’ve not commented before and I didn’t think the first time I did would be to voice a (partially) dissenting opinion. However, I feel compelled to now as some of the comments left on this blog suggest that there cannot be more than one view on this subject.

I have a son who is now 18 months old. In ordinary circumstances, I wouldn’t have let anyone else breastfeed him for the simple reason that are a number of infections that can be transmitted through breastmilk, as well as medications that are not recommended during breastfeeding. Consequently, not all breastmilk is a positive health choice for a child and whilst I am very knowledgeable about my own health status I don’t consider that I have sufficient information about anyone else’s health – hence I wouldn’t personally have done what Laura did.

I should add that I appear the picture of health, as my lifestyle revolves around nutrition and exercise. However, unknown to everyone except my partner and my doctor, I have an STD. It’s not life threatening one (or even one that can be transmitted through breastmilk) but I don’t think you can judge anyone’s health status from their appearance or how much you like their personality.

I didn’t get a chance to read the original blog post (the one that was removed). I can imagine though that reading about what was essentially a private decision of yours (and of Laura’s) in a public forum was not pleasant for you. On the other hand, I do agree with the couple of commentators who have said that the strength of the reaction from your loyal fans has also been a bit OTT. Not everyone would have done what the two of you did – the unfortunate thing was that you were both publicly criticised for it.
Pop Culture Casualty Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

Hello old friend – I had to come over to the blog to see what all the twitter dramz was about. And I loved reading your post. Good for you my dear. I’m not a mother – but you don’t have to be to find what was written on this other blog offensive. It’s your body and it’s Laura’s baby and it’s entirely your own business. Other cultures have done this for years, it’s natural and doesn’t deserve a label. Go get em lady!
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:25 pm

To everyone who is concerned about the tenor of discussion of HIV/AIDS – I did not start that discussion. It was started on the other blog, and perpetuated in that comment section. I reported, in my post, some cross-section and the tenor of that discussion to make my point about finding it offensive and hurtful.

It was the other blogger who used terms like ‘unsanitary’ ‘dirty’ and linked it to disease. (She also nudge-nudge-wink-winked some comments about me being a drinker, which she repeated on Twitter.) And her commenters ran with it.

I noted above that illness is not commensurate with ‘dirty,’ and that many mothers are encouraged to nurse even if struggling with illness.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:28 pm

I told my wife about this post and she nearly threw up in her own mouth!! I think it’s completely disgusting to breast feed someone’s baby that isn’t yours and my wife, a mother of 5 (and breast fed every single one of them) feels EXACTLY the same.

You mentioned a concierge? Does that mean you were in a hotel that you had a room in? If so all you had to do was go take a hot shot and the milk comes flowing… My wife had to do it several times so I’m not speaking out the side of my neck!

and by the way… two bash sessions don’t make a right!!!
Atlanta Mommy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:30 pm

Hungry Baby + Engorged Breasts = Relief, for both parties. I remember what engorged breasts felt like. Mind-numbing pain. It’s sad that someone had to turn this into more than what it was. I’m sad that breastfeeding is still so controversial. Hopefully it won’t be like this when my daughters consider nursing theirs.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:30 pm

@HMB

And if she had been 1/2 as diligent as you are at stepping in your comments and making clarifications like that, many of these statements and allegations would not even be a discussion right now.

Ehem.
Heather Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

I am so sorry that such hurtful things were said. When I was about 3 months old, my Mom came across one of her friends crying in the church bathroom. She had recently had a baby too and for some reason her milk wouldn’t let down that day. She was crying, her daughter was crying. Mom offered to nurse the little girl so that she would be fed and then they could figure out the milk thing once every one was calmed down. She didn’t tell me until I was going through struggles with breastfeeding my own son because she thought I would have thought it was weird or gross or even have felt betrayed. Not at all. After all that I went through to feed my own son and having friends who did everything they could and just were never able to, it is such a joy and blessing to be able to nourish my child and I hope I never take it for granted. I would have been so honored to nurse another’s child.
Juliet Eccleston Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

I have followed this on twitter and can’t believe some of the comments. In so many cultures this is such a normal thing to do.

Lets embrace something that is for the good of a mum and a baby.

For those with negative comments, maybe they have never experienced the connection between mums and the pain of being without their baby as well as the physical pain of engorged breasts. I feel sorry for them.
Hol and J Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:38 pm

Thank you for posting this. I admire and appreciate your transparency, considering the subject and situation.

While I’m not yet a mother, I didn’t feel that what you did was gross, wrong, or should have received the flack that it did. If I had been in your situation (either side) I would have been appreciative, and would have seen that there are “friends” and then there are a few real, honest to goodness, do anything for you, friends.

You and Laura both deserve big hugs.
Tara Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

Read some history books of the amazing women that were pioneers, taking care of each…they did that ALL THE TIME! They all helped each other and breastfeeding each others’ baby was NOT abnormal at all. It was a way of life…it was how the human body worked…it’s what they did for their “sisters”…. Who cares what those uneducated idiots said…. they’re pathetic and if that’s all that have to write about then they suck anyway.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

First of all I am a huge supporter of breast feeding and have no problem at all with the act you describe.

That said I really dislike the tone of this post and the surrounding buzz, both here and on Twitter. It reminds me of all the other blogging “controversies” I’ve read through before. I shudder to see grown, successful women acting more like high-schoolers than mature adults. For example, comments like “what a sicko,” “Can you post a link to the offensive blog so we can tell the judgemental ignorant so and so exactly how wrong she is,” and others. Rather than having a grown-up conversation, all I see is high-fives, “poor catherines”, and “oh that nasty other blogger”.

The one woman who asked oh-so-very carefully if maybe you were only looking for “bravas” was met with a very clear, “Brava is the generous response” by you. You are not looking for differing opinions. This is your right (it is your blog, after all), but why pretend to be open-minded?

Catherine, you have a public blog and are a public figure (celebrity, even) in the blogging world. You regularly speak at conferences, you shape the conversation, and you have a large and very loyal readership. The great thing about being a celebrity is that you get a lot of perks. You feel good. You have fans. You get opportunities that many people don’t. But, like most things, there’s a downside. The downside is that you are more likely to get picked on by people who are jealous or judgmental or just looking for some minutes in the spotlight. People are more likely to talk about you, in good and bad ways. People will watch you, when you’re out in public, and they might write about what they see you doing. They might even write about it in a mean or less-than-accurate way. These are the downsides to being a public figure.

I take issue with your statement that “What I do with my boobs – what any mother does to ensure that her baby gets fed – is none of your business.” Let’s be honest, that is not entirely true. What other moms do IS their business. You, on the other hand, have repeatedly made what you do with your boobs our business- and the business of everyone who will listen- as evidenced by this post as well as the other two that you’ve linked to in this post.

The fact that you write about these topics on a public and well-trafficked blog, that you are a blogging celebrity and that you choose to speak at conferences and do other public activities all add up to mean that you can EXPECT to be judged for your actions at a very public place like a blogging conference. Just like Britney Spears gets judged more harshly for her choices than the average non-famous woman. It comes with the territory. If you don’t want to be judged you can either take back your private life by stopping blogging, or you can do some activities, for which you don’t want judgment, in private.

I think your message would be stronger and I personally would respect you more if you acknowledged that you have put yourself in the spotlight. Take issues with the judgment, fine, but not the fact that it is happening. Because that is directly under your control. If you really don’t want to be judged, take your blog down or password-protect it and I promise everyone will stop caring what you do or don’t do with your breasts.

Right now it’s feeling an awful lot like you are taking advantage of the situation. This post reads like a publicity stunt for HBM thinly veiled as a supportive post for the choices of breastfeeding women.
Amy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

There is so much weighing on my heart it’s hard to put into words. As a nursing mom I know what kind of pain you were in. Laura allowing you to nurse her baby was just one of the many ways we women support one another. Why can’t we do that more often? Have you ever noticed it’s other WOMEN who approach us in public places and ask that we cover up or go to the bathroom to nurse our babies? Why can’t we women support, encourage, help, love one another while we struggle day after day to be good moms and make the best decisions for our children. I think it speaks volumes of how natural and right nursing is that Laura’s baby took to your breast without issue. Who are we as women to judge each other?
Boston Mamas Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

I applaud and commend your and Laura’s actions; the act was full of instinct and love and necessity. It was {gasp} MATERNAL.

I feel utterly depressed when I read about idiocy, close mindedness, and utter inaccuracy as that you described. But I know karma has a way of making the rounds…

-Christine
Lee Turner Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:44 pm

I have to say that I am totally amazed at the extent that some people have gone to in their response to this. The lady who wrote the original blog post should be ashamed of herself.

Well done is all I have to say. I would have done the same thing and I would have supported my partner doing the same thing as well.

Just my thoughts from a father to a breast fed baby.
Karen (miscmum) Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:46 pm

You’ve been put in such a difficult position doing what you felt was right for yourself and the baby. This was just the business between you and Laura. That this has been blown out of the water is unfair to both of you. I also wonder how she’s doing?
Caroline - Morningside Mom Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

Holy 288+ comments! Boob talk will do that.

Anyhow.

What you did? Nurse that baby? BRILLIANT. No it was. I have been there and in such pain before and so so sick to my stomach desperate for relief, its like nothing I have ever experienced before. I was lucky enough to have a friend lend a pump. I was beyond grateful. But I would have been equally as grateful if a mother with a child offered the same thing. What a brilliant idea. And what a wonderful story of generosity, motherhood and sympathy.

At least the first part was wonderful. No words for the rest of it.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

@anon 4:41

Those of us following HBM tweets know this already but the woman HAD. She had hot compresses on her boobs and had expressed as much as she could. There comes a point where you CAN’T and trying causes bruising and makes it a WHOLE lot worse (I’ve been there)

That was part of the frustration: She could not hand express any longer and she could not access a pump.

I don’t know if that makes it less gross or not, but I thought I’d save HBM some time and answer your question.
Badness Jones Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

You go girl! I think you (and Laura) did an awesome thing. My son weaned a few months ago, at 2, but this week he was sick, and he lifted my shirt and asked for milk, and when I told him sorry, it’s all gone, he asked me to take him “store mom! MORE milk boobs!” We could’ve used someone as open and caring as you around here.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:53 pm

Meaning ‘Less gross for you”.
Just a clarification.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

Anonymous – about this being a publicity stunt? no way. I didn’t ask that blogger to write the post that she did – that’s beside the point. I wrote this post for me – and everything up until the last few paragraphs, in which I address the controversy, would have been posted regardless of any controversy. Hell, I tweeted that I did it. It’s what I do. I mother publicly. So, yeah, I know that I face judgments. I accept that.

BUT. I think that I’ve made it very clear here – in the post and in comments – that I’m totally fine with disagreement. In fact, had I posted this absent the controversy, I would have asked, at the end of the post ‘what do you think?’ would you do it?’ Because I am sincerely interested.

What I have taken exception to is two things: first, that the blogger in question misrepresented the story and twisted facts to make it seem more salacious than it was. She admitted to me, in an e-mail, to doing this. I haven’t – and don’t – take issue with her disagreeing with what I did – but she shouldn’t distort the story (nor should she go on twitter, as she did, and accuse me – on no basis – of drinking irresponsibly while nursing.) Secondly, I disagree that disagreement can and ever should take the form of public shaming, of using words like ‘disgusting’ and wondering out loud whether the person in question has AIDS or is a drug addict. To try to make this sordid does a dis-service to all women, and to breastfeeding generally. Which is why it is, for me, about breastfeeding. Until people become able to voice their disagreements/opinions around breastfeeding without resorting to salacious story-telling and using words like ‘disgusting’, we’ve all got a problem.
ewe are here Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

BAck in the day, a lot of babies would have died were it not for wet nurses.

I’m glad you and your new friend, and her baby, were able to help each other.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

There was just an article in O magazine about a woman who’d lost her triplets but still had milk and donated a huge amount to a local milk bank and it was a very touching story.

Maybe the involvement of the nipple to mouth contact is the issue – I’ve asked other mothers and they’ve said that if there was a fussy baby they would PUMP and then feed the baby for a friend or relative…..

I agree that 100 years ago this would have been no thing because babies whose mothers milk didnt come in either DIED or got hip with a wet nurse. My great-grandmother wet-nursed the whole neighborhood and when I heard that, I was PROUD. It used to take a village to raise a child and I’m sure this is way more common, globally, through time then we americans think.

Also maybe different circumstances – starving baby/concenience? I would hope no one would have any issue with breastfeeding a baby or hell, a bigger KID if given no other option.
mythoughtsonthat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:05 pm

Sounds like there was a problem and a solution was found. That should have been the end of it but ….not in the blog world! The ruckus here, there and everywhere is just crazy- I have to look away!
When I first started reading blogs, I didn’t know the unwritten rule: don’t disagree with the blog writer. Please don’t say it’s not there- it most certainly is. I made the mistake of disagreeing, very respectfully, and was taken care of promptly, even being called names. You can bet I’ll never do that again!
It sounds like the offending post was harsh and off the point. But so is all this! I don’t write about many controversial issues on my blog, but if/when I do, I’ll accept any and all comments for what they are: just that person’s opinions. Or I’ll quit writing. That, my friends, is life.
meli-mello Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:07 pm

Many years ago my exboyfriend’s Mum nursed the neighbours child on a regular basis because the neighbour couldn’t. We all grew up together and knew about it and it never seemed weird at all (the boys were born a couple months apart). Seeing as my daughter was ALWAYS hungry and I know the pain of full breasts I wouldn’t think twice about letting a friend (or almost friend) nurse her. In fact until I read this post I never thought anyone would think it was weird. I think it is weird that someone was freaked out about it.
One Crazy Chick! Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:08 pm

Bravo!

I would have done the same thing! Exactly except I probably wouldn’t have made it to lunchtime. I would have been holding a sign, “WILL FEED YOUR BABY FOR FREE!”
Sarah Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

Came to you through a friend. A beautiful, wonderful, intelligent post.

What is “disgusting” is how you’ve been judged for doing something that was nobody’s business but yours and Laura’s.
April Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

uhg, i got stuck somewhere without a breastpump for 12 hours once at a time when my kiddo was used to nursing every 2 hrs. i would’ve given my right arm for a nursing baby. ANY nursing baby.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

HBM 4:55, I understand where you’re coming from, and can acknowledge that this post is not a publicity stunt (that was too harsh, I apologize) and more something you are passionate about. Fair enough.

Still, this post and many of the related comments and tweets have an unnecessary witch-hunt quality that I dislike. For example you are clearly, in this post and on Twitter, going after the unnamed blogger’s relationship with the goldfish campaign. The implication is “mess with me and I’ll take you DOWN.” This is just ONE example of the mob mentality that makes people such as me fearful of attaching our names to our dissenting opinions.

And, to be clear, by “mob mentality” I mean “hurt one of my peeps and I’ll blow up your car.” There absolutely IS retribution whenever one of you perceives that she has been wronged. Whether this retribution is an attack on another’s credibility or just a verbal attack, it does occur. Please give the rest of us the courtesy of acknowledging the fact that you and your friends do act this way.

Furthermore, if you are holding this other blogger accountable for not controlling her commenters, it only seems fair that you would be responsible for controlling the tone of comments here, on your blog. I’m disappointed that I don’t see any gentle reminders from you to treat other commenters with courtesy and respect. The few commenters who left thoughtful but differing opinions were scared off by the resulting response. If you really want to hear both sides, you must make it absolutely comfortable for dissenters to disagree (as long as they’re respectful, of course). This means acknowledging them when they make a valid point, and thanking them for their honesty.

I have much respect for your mind, your mission, and your writing. But I do not like your- and your friends’- approach to dealing with those who disagree with you. If the behavior of mommy bloggers is to improve, it has to start with people such as you.
TheoBaskind Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

WOW!! This is absolutely amazing!!

It seems the majority of people who are saying nasty things are logging in as anonymous… If you’re going to slander someone at least have the sac to come out from behind the curtain…

As for the issue of breast feeding someone’s child that isn’t yours that’s completely between the two mothers.

Luckily my wife was successful at taking hot showers to relieve the pressure, like “anonymous” said but I’m sure every woman reacts differently to various methods.

I do commend you for attacking the issue head on and not taking any “guff”!

I follow the blogger who started this whole mess on Twitter and I do have to say she has dropped my jaw!!

I can’t believe she would post so haphazardly and only admit she “may” have misled people with her post in a private email and not publicly…

Oh… and I feel sorry for the close-minded soul who immediately jumped to the conclusion that the person who raised the “issue” on their blog was a man!! Holy “gender profiling Batman!”

psst… it was a woman my friend, not a man

I don’t know a single man who is offended by a woman breast feeding in public… if anything it’s the direct opposite LOL!!
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:19 pm

More power to both you and Laura! The amount of fear and loathing surrounding the natural use of our bodies is profoundly disturbing – breastfeeding another woman’s child has been done since time began for any number of reasons.
I am struggling to feel compassion for the woman who blogged such ignorant, hate-filled, fear-saturated comments….
Lynne (veteran breastfeeder of 4, homebirth midwife of 22 years)
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:21 pm

Oh.. and yeah I posted anonymous.. Seems like both parties here seem to have a bunch of radical followers that I don’t need following me around trying to use agressiveness and such to sway me to their sides and opinions
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:26 pm

I just have to add this one more thing in response to TheoBaskind,

“It seems the majority of people who are saying nasty things are logging in as anonymous… If you’re going to slander someone at least have the sac to come out from behind the curtain…”

CASE IN POINT. The … at the end of that sentence implies the logical end of the sentence, which is, “…so that we can take pot shots at you.”

Trolls say things without substantiation, which are hurtful and mean without being constructive. Honestly I think their comments (whether anon or not) should just be deleted so as not to give them the attention they crave.

But as for people who honestly disagree? These people are posting anonymously here because this is not a safe environment in which to disagree.
That will continue to be the case until you, Catherine, put a stop to it the abuse by your supporters against those who would disagree with you.
Velma Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:26 pm

Yargh.

There will always be people flinging poo around on their blogs, which is why it’s a joy to come to other blogs like this one and read through an eloquent discussion of the situation.

“Her Bad Mother: A POO FREE ZONE.”

Catchy, right?
toyfoto Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:27 pm

I must say I’m so glad to be “out of the loop” when it comes to drama.

The idea of nursing someone else’s baby has occurred to me in the abstract of the baby needing nourishment but not in the sense of a mother needing relief.

But just that it never occurred to me doesn’t mean I wouldn’t approve. It’s a lovely and very kind gesture.
Kristy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

People are so closed minded. I say if she agreed, and you agreed then it’s really no one else’s business. And her sweet baby obviously agreed.
Allycat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

Wow talk about all sides of the spectrum (although a spectrum doesn’t really have sides does it? oh….) Anyway, I would LIKE to think that I would do the same in your situation. I think it shows two responsible, mature and free thinking women who made a decision that felt right to them. I would like to think that I was also capable of that. Also, it is even the world of celebrity are doing this – http://mamamia.com.au/weblog/2009/02/would-you-breastfeed-a-strangers-baby-salma-hayek-did.html
TheoBaskind Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:40 pm

@anonymous

WOW! you looked so deep into the (…) it’s practically funny!!

It’s cool to disagree and have a strong point of view but the name calling is simply mind-boggling.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:46 pm

@TheoBaskind
as far as I can see, most of the name calling was by HBM’s advocates, at least on this post.
I don’t like your suggestion that anonymous comments were nasty comments. Not true. Well, not always. there was that one person who used all-caps…
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:50 pm

Anon: I’m not, nor have I been, going after the blogger’s Fishful campaign – it came up because SHE made a point of it, accusing me (and others) of being critical of her because of past weirdness with that campaign. (Also, the incident occured at that campaign’s launch symposium.) I’ve actually spoken on the phone with the CEO of the PR company that runs that campaign and – although he told me that he would ask her to take it down if I asked (and if she put it back up) and I said no.

My gripe is not with the campaign – but the campaign became relevant when she began insisting that this was all about the campaign. ‘Nuff said.

Also – I’ve been doing my best to monitor comments here, but we’re now well over 300 and I haven’t been able to stay on top of them all. Where I could, I supported commenters who expressed differing opinions. I haven’t had the time or psychic energy to be a go-between this time around (although ask any regular reader here – I regularly step in ask commenters to play nice.) And I haven’t stoked any disagreeable flames – which is exactly what the other blogger with her (at the time) twenty-something commenters, goading them on, and making suggestions – that she KNEW were false – that who knew whether I’d been drinking?

Her behaviour there, and on twitter (where she repeated the accusation about drinking) have been defamatory and mean-spirited. I’ve done my best to not stoop to that level, maybe not with %100 success, but with some. And, yes, my friends get upset on my behalf, AND on behalf of the issue. That’s a whole ‘nother topic. SIGH.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:54 pm

I just LOVE that people can’t have opinions on blogs anymore without getting this internet posse to gang up on someone.

Mothers are the worst when it comes to this. You had a child, you are not a saint.

The post in question that was so hurtful? So what? You did something in public and it got observed on a blog. Blogs are our thoughts and day to day lives. I would LOVE for you all to come to my blog and tell me I’m wrong for writing about the woman I saw in the grocery store with dirty children and bare feet talking on her cell phone buying all the sugar in the store. Whatever, it was my observation.

Next time, if you don’t want someone to not like what you are doing, then try to do it more discreetly.

Or how about this. Buy a t-shirt that says you are copyrighted and no part of your person can be mentioned ever. This is udder bullshit. (pun intended)

Guess what? I plan to feed my kids with bottles and dare another woman to even bring her tits near mine. How about that?
Meg Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:54 pm

Catherine, you are an amazing, wonderful lady. I applaud you and Laura for what you did.

I know the pain of engorgement and no one can point fingers until they have felt it, too.

Honestly? When I first read your tweet, I didn’t really care what you did. Okay, you nursed another child. Strange. But reading your words, your feelings, made me realize just how it all went down. You were hurting, there was a hungry child, everyone involved was happy. And I’m proud of you for owning it.

These trolls? They need to get over it. They were not involved. Hell, they can even be freaked out about it, but there is no need for finger pointing and name calling. Not their body, not their child, not their problem.

Bravo for what you did. It was what your body was made to do.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

And by the way, I find it incredibly comical that people are blasting the blog in question for “name calling” and hurtful things when they are doing the same thing here. Nice high road you’re looking down from??
Michelle Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

I am an avid reader of your blog and de-lurking to tell you I applaud you. My two aunts had babies a month apart and they always laugh about an incidence when one aunt breastfed her niece when she wouldn’t stop crying and the mother wasn’t there. I applaud Salma Hayek and almost wish I could feed every malnourished baby that needed it.
Everyone was right when they stated that this was between you and Laura, it really isn’t anyone elses business. Breastfeeding is the most natural thing in the world, but I dare say that you have to experience it to have a full appreciation for it. I can understand other’s dislike for it, but not their judgement.
Kim Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 5:59 pm

Good for you and Laura. Listening to your hearts, bodies, and babies, that is what we are supposed to do.

I am currently pumping for another woman’s child who she can’t nurse. Is that wrong? No way. Neither is what you did.

I know the pain of engorgement and know how desperate you become for any kind of relief.

That woman should have kept her nose in her own business.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:00 pm

I can only speak for myself, but frankly, I don’t agree with you, anonymous. Anonymous comments do have their place in the internet world.

However, your reasoning just seems cowardly to me.

Courage would not be courage if it were EASY and “SAFE”. It doesn’t take a lot of balls to make statements that oppose majority if you do it from underneath a rock or shield of anonymity.

The comments section of the other forum was not any safer than this one. There were many “psycho” statements being hurled at Catherine.

And yet?

With the exception of two bloggers (one who seemed to have bad history with the author and more focused on her than the post)
EVERYONE who supported HBM went into a place where they were the minority, spoke their objections AND had the responsibility and spine to post their names and blog links.

“Safe” or not.

In fact, most of the anonymous comments were there bashing the supporters of Catherine. (I have all 100 of them, if you’d like to read them.)

You absolutely have the right to remain anonymous. ABSOLUTELY. Because Catherine has allowed it here.

But in my opinion you should stop blaming Catherine or other commenters for your inability to shed your hood and stand up for yourself and your comments.

That’s your cowardice. Don’t put it on her and others.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:01 pm

Anon (who said I need to put a stop to my supporters attacking those who disagree) – I don’t see a lot of attacking (not here – I have not revisited the other blog post since late yesterday, after I left my one comment.) Anyone who is expressing their disagreement civilly is not attacked. I, in fact, have supported a few people who disagreed respectfully. I *invited* respectful disagreement.

But again – AGAIN – this was never about disagreement of opinion. This was about someone telling a story – about which she had no direct information, only having observed from a distance and made assumptions – in an admittedly misleading manner and encouraging her commenters to take the misinformation off in all sorts of twisted directions (she herself even alluded that I might have been drinking, which was entirely untrue). So my beef with the blogging side of this has always been about the controversy-baiting on her part, and the misleading way she went about it.
TheoBaskind Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:01 pm

come on now @anonymous. If you read my comment it says “it seems”. There are 324 comments on this post so I have no idea if ALL of the anonymous comments are nasty name callers.

I simply said “it seems”.

and I’m certainly not picking a side because I feel both bloggers are at fault to an extent. When someone has a voice that people listen to actions/words should be mulled over for a bit before being expressed. That is a lesson I’m currently teaching my 14 yr old son.

There is a difference between an honest opinion and couth.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:06 pm

But Loralee, you’ve proven my point.

If this blog is open to disagreement, you shouldn’t need COURAGE to disagree. The fact that you do means the blog and its community are not supportive of disagreement. And so what purports itself as open-minded really isn’t at all.

As for the other stuff, I didn’t read the original post and don’t agree with its content as described. If I had to pick a side I would have landed on HBM’s. The reason I keep commenting, I guess (I keep asking myself this question) is that I honestly hate the attitude of spite and vitriol that I keep seeing in the mom blog community and I believe that the only people who can change it are people like Catherine. And you. Who have courage, especially when courage is more than sticking up for your friend, but rather standing up to your friend when you think she’s in the wrong.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

So you seriously went to the CEO of the blogging community or whatever and talked to them about this?? They want to get involved over someone’s PERSONAL OPINION ON A PERSONAL BLOG? Wow, guess I’ll never visit them.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:09 pm

HBM-
I’m not talking about disagreeing about the breast feeding issue (although in an early comment you did say you were open to hearing both perspectives, which it now appears you are not). I’m talking about disagreeing with the way you are handling this situation. You know, “with great power comes great responsibility”

And now I’ll stop commenting b/c it’s abundantly clear that my thoughts on the mob mentality and civil disagreement are frankly not being heard. Not surprising. If I expected a different reaction, I wouldn’t have felt the need to hide behind anonymity.
Mama Bub Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:10 pm

First of all, I remember vividly the pain of engorged breasts. I would have nursed at cat in your situation and heartily applaud Laura for doing what needed to be done.

Secondly, why does there have to be so much attacking? Motherhood is so many choices, so many decisions. We’re hard enough on ourselves about whether or not we’re doing the right thing for our children, why do we have to do this to each other?

You’ve moved me again. I’m thinking I would like to move into your blog and just absorb your awesomeness by osmosis.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:15 pm

Catherine, you’ve done a wonderful job at making yourself a martyr.

I read the original post in question and sad truth is, as a twitterer/facebooker/blogger I had NO clue who you were.

I read the story with mild amusement of an observation of someone that had a trip she wanted to share with her readers. The ONE paragraph in the original version was barely noticeable except for me to think “wow, what strange things she saw while at this event”.

You and your little crew (which you all have had good high school training and will no doubt raise your little angels to school yard bully around anyone they don’t agree with) have turned this into internet war and I find it highly disturbing.

Before this, had I run across your blog just in passing, I would have been happy to have another blog to read. Right now, I’m seeing more than a little irony in the fact that your name has “bad mom” in it.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:15 pm

Anon – he called me. It was not the first time.

She wrote the post as a representative of the campaign, about something that happened at their event, involving someone that they had invited as a special guest to that event. And then she told people who were disagreeing with her that she figured they were just doing so because they didn’t like the campaign.

I was the architect of none of those things.
Morgan McFarland Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:18 pm

Last summer, my friend Sarah and I were interviewed on Good Morning America for a cross-nursing segment (I had nursed Sarah’s baby on a few occasions while she had oral surgery). The feedback from the viewers was largely positive, but of course there will always be those ignorant people who are incapable of equating breasts with anything but sex. It’s a shame that this narrow-minded individual would target you for attack like that. Know that you’re not alone (by far!) and there are many other generous mamas out there who nursed another baby in a time of need or simply because that’s what friends and family DO for each other in some cultures. Keep up the good work, mama!
Heather Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:20 pm

As a mother who sought out donated breastmilk and *gasp* let someone else nurse her child, I just want to commend you and Laura for trusting each other in that moment.

How I wish discussions about wet nursing/donated breastmilk (and every other parenting discussion, for that matter) could be about real issues and not shame. If people had solid information, I think they wouldn’t judge so completely or so swiftly.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:21 pm

Anonymous (most recent) – you didn’t read the original post. it was removed. you read the previous post, in which she just mentioned what she saw in passing. the subsequent post was harsh, and presented the facts in a misleading manner (she admitted this to me in an e-mail, straight-up) in order to make the whole thing more salacious.

I have no interest in being a martyr. I DO have an interest in doing what I can to counteract shaming wherever I see it. That, and like telling my own stories. The story above? Is mine. I shared it. And I called out whatever forces in the internetverse want to make something shameful out of it.

If that’s not your bag, whatever. Sorry to disappoint.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:21 pm

LOL Morgan. The only reason people could possibly view it negatively is because they look at breasts as sexual??

No, no way, it couldn’t be because they just have different opinions and don’t like the idea of it.

I’m the type of person that doesn’t like strangers hugging, touching or getting too close to me. So it couldn’t possibly be that some women just don’t like the idea of such an intimate act being done by someone else to your child.
Mocha Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:29 pm

Let me go back just a wee bit in the way of an explanation:

After having ONE baby while I was in high school I went and got pregnant again. SHOCKER. So, I placed her for adoption. She found me 6 months ago. It’s been ridiculously blissful and I proudly state now (with NO shame) that I have four kids. FOUR.

When she went to live with her new family I would have LOVED for someone else to nurse her if that were a possibility. She would have gotten the best possible nutrients and would have bonded with another human being. A woman. Who lactates. Who cares not that this wasn’t her biological child. That would have been a blessing and I’d be grateful for it.

That’s why I’m grateful for you and your unselfishness. I can’t get caught up in the rest of the drama (and yes, I realize it’s hard to separate it) because it’s one opinion from a person who will never be able to see that beauty and sacrifice. We can’t force people to do such things. We can only hope that the act of what we’ve done was enough.

It’s enough, Catherine. Let it be. You are wonderful beyond the words I could express here.

OH. Pun! Look at me! I’m funny!

xoxo
margalit Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:29 pm

Caveat: I didn’t read the other post, nor have I ever heard of that other poster, and I wasn’t paying attention to most of the twitters because I didn’t get what they were about.

I think so much of this is about the age of the women involved. I’m a generation older than most of you, and sort of pre-aids, when nursing another woman’s baby wasn’t really a big deal. I did it with my friend’s baby a couple of times when she couldn’t get out of work in time to relieve her au-pair. No big deal. I had more than enough milk, she knew I was not a drinker, druggie, or doing anything unsafe.

My mother nursed my cousin who was 3 days older than my sister. Nobody thought a thing about it. It was what mother’s did to help each other out. When my aunt needed a night out, my mother babysat and nursed both babes. My aunt returned the favor. No biggie, no worries. It was what women did.

But in this uptight, we have to be perfect mommies society, you always focus on the negative and find fault with other people’s parenting. It’s a TERRIBLE time to be a mother. There is so much focus on how to do it right, how to be the best mother if you only read these books and these web sites and follow this pediatrician’s advice. For heaven’s sake, it’s just crazy. In the 50’s, when I was a baby, there was one book…Dr Spock. And if you read it now, you’ll see that it’s not a judgemental book at all, so unlike the “What to Expect” stuff.

You younger mothers are just setting each other up for failure by continuing to be so judgemental and minding other people’s business. Had that other blogger just turned around and spoken to herself rather than to blog something that didn’t even INVOLVE her, none of this brouhaha would have happened.

But I do have to say, in her defense, that you DO have a strong and vocal posse, and it has to be scary to have hundreds of women come down on her. Not that she didn’t deserve it for starting this up in the first place, but geesh… can we all be a little bit kinder?
Backpacking Dad Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:34 pm

I’m posting this anonymously because I don’t want this traced back to me. I’m also using an IP blocker so don’t even try to figure out who this is. I’m serious. I’m like a masked avenger. Secret identity and everything.

What someone needed, to avoid this, was a more clear concept of “personal attack.” The other blogger with that site in the place that rhymes with Aily Onde who is a woman who had a post up yesterday? Needs to understand that “unnamed” doesn’t equal “anonymous” or “impersonal”. That definite descriptions (oh, Hi there Bertrand Russell, how are you?) are pretty damned good at fixing identity. Even if it’s only in one person’s mind, a correct identification through a definite description like “One of the women this weekend at the Goldfish sleepaway camp thing” (although some would say that’s indefinite, since it says “one”, but it’s way more definite than “I once saw the following happen…”) by you know, the person involved has to play a role in the moral consideration about whether to say what was said as it was said.

That is, did she ever wonder “If Catherine reads this will she know I’m talking about her?” Because her “I didn’t name names” line only works if it’s true that people can only identify themselves if they are named.

I’m pretty sure she could pick herself out of this comment right here. I haven’t named names though; this is just my opinion. So she shouldn’t have any reason to be upset.

Phew. Sure am glad I posted this anonymously. I’d hate to have named my own name.
Backpacking Dad Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

Dang.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

I have disagreed with Catherine in the past. ABOUT BREAST FEEDING, ironically. And I do not think that I would cross nurse, and I have stated that.

I disagree with you about disagreement not truly being allowed on this blog. It absolutely is. As I have said, I have disagreed here and HBM treated me with respect. She is my friend.

Sure, there were people who threw things, stomped their feet and pouted. There are very passionate loyal fans here and this is a very high traffic blog. Some people were big meanies…but that is um…life on the internet?

People are not going to give you warm hugs and flowers for taking a dissenting opinion on such an impassioned subject. Some may, but that is just unrealistic.

There have been no threats of violence, no utterly obscene things flung.

I suppose in a perfect world, stating opinions of dissent on the internet would not require any courage and we would all hold hands and sing Kumbyah. And there would be cookies served. And chocolate milk.

It would be wonderful for my ulcer and anxiety.

There are very strong opinions on the internet. To me, it takes courage to voice a dissenting opinion on it, no matter where you are.

I was scared posting at the other blogger’s place but no way would I go anonymous. If I say it, I stand by it.

(Though, I have to agree w/HBM’s comment that I do not think people have been as rabid as you are claiming)

If you really think this is an unsafe place to speak or that bad? You really need to surf and speak up in more places.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:41 pm

“I have no interest in being a martyr. I DO have an interest in doing what I can to counteract shaming wherever I see it.”

aren’t you shaming the original poster from here to talahassee?
Samantha Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:41 pm

A) I think it was lovely that Lauren was kind enough to help Catherine when she was in pain. There isn’t enough of that in the world today.
B) She was at a convention FOR PARENTS (at which Catherine was apparently well known)so I think it was fairly safe of Lauren to assume that C whas telling the truth when she said she was healthy and that her milk wasn’t comprimised.
It’s the right of every mother to decide in a situation like that, though.
B) I think the issue has been blown out of purportion. The original post seemed to be nothing more than negative gossip about two women. Whether Anonymous knew who the story was about or not, HBM knew and was hurt by the accusation that she was doing something wrong. She has a right to be offended when someone posts something malicious like that – even if she is parenting publicly. She’s a human, not a robot.
C) There have been a few reviewers on HBM’s side who have taken it a bit far – asking for a link to the other author’s blog so they can bash her isn’t respectful or productive.
D) I think Catherine has handled the comments to this post very well – or as well as one can with two active children to look after.

That said, I think the story was a touching and I’m glad someone was able to help you when you needed it, Catherine.
daniloth Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:41 pm

I just have to say that the academic idea of breastfeeding another baby leaves me with mixed feelings, but I suspect the biological imperative of emptying overfull, throbbing breasts would totally help me get over any squeamishness!

Thanks for standing up for the rights of moms to do what we feel necessary for us and our kids.

And if you’re interested, there’s an article on babble about breastfeeding kids other than your own. I found it interesting and thought provoking.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

Catherine- I think what you and Laura did was fine. I would do it in a heartbeat.

Caren
CheekySweetie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:48 pm

I think if you didn’t read the original post and comments, it is easy to assume that this is all vitriol. If you want to see a mob mentality, you should have seen the comments over there, and the hateful things that were said about Catherine and Laura, and fueled by the poster’s comments.

I haven’t seen a single person where who disagreed like an adult get slammed. Again, over 300 comments are hard to keep up with, but I believe I read every one. The issue wasn’t presented as, “Would you do this thing that I observed? I would/wouldn’t and here’s why.” It was presented as deviant and the other words used were “irresponsible, disgusting, unsanitary, and dirty.”

No one is saying everyone on the planet needs to feed each other’s children. The point is-you make the choice that seems right for you, and let others make the one that is right for them.

It makes me think of surrogacy. Pregnancy is an intimate act typically between mother and her biological child, but sometimes, people are not able to go the traditional routes and other women step in and make it possible. It is a personal agreement between prospective parents and the surrogate, it is not “disgusting, deviant, unsanitary, irresponsible, or dirty.”

Not every woman would be able to be a surrogate, or have one carry their child. But for the people who can, and agree to do so, it is their right to make that choice. They don’t push their choice on anyone else; they merely ask for their choice to be respected.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:51 pm

I suppose pointing out the fact that you continue and perpetuation the situation as well would be pointless, huh?

She has an absolute right to voice an opinion. (And BTW? Her opinion is actually THE MAJORITY. Cross nursing is not a subject that America in general is supportive of)

She Absolutely Has That Right. But with rights come responsibility. She will have accountability for HOW she expresses that opinion. If you choose to state an opinion and make it very UN rainbows and puppy dogs? Prepare for some thunderstorms and mutt-like behavior.

And obviously? Many, many people saw big things wrong with how this went down. Including me. YOU have a differing opinion. WE are BOTH speaking up about it.
Loralee Choate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:55 pm

To clarify my last comment: I was referring to the other blogger in my comment about having rights to state her and is in the majority with her opinion, not HBM.

I realized I may have not been clear about that.

This is also addressed to anon. 6:41
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 6:58 pm

the fear of breasts and breastfeeding totally exemplifies the sexual schizophrenia of north america.

i don’t understand why there is so much mom-on-mom hate in the blogosphere. when/if i am a mother, i will never share my stories on the internet. even though there is so much support, there is also so much judgment.

stop hating each other, ladies. we have enough to contend with without judging each other for amazing things like breastfeeding.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

also, what jenny the bloggess said. she is my hero.
Haley-O Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

I breastfed both my kids for 1 year. The entire time I got “ewww, gross, s/he spit up Haley’s breast milk all over you” and “he’s always on your boob,” and “again!? you have to feed him again.” Just constant comments. Yes, it was hard being called “disgusting” for breastfeeding…. I can understand that….

Anyway, I think the discussion is REALLY fascinating. It’s really too bad it had to spring from so much animosity.
Rebecca Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

GREETINGS!

I think it’s amazing that this woman, Laura — a stranger at the start of the day — allowed you to breastfeed her baby. I also think it’s REALLY cool. The note about the trust involved is also amazing. Now THAT is trust.

As you know doubt know, Salma Hayek has received a fair amount of criticism — as well as some love — for feeding another woman’s baby recently. This baby was starving. The baby you nursed had a food source (her mom or a bottle, not sure which), so, yes, the baby benefited, but your getting to nurse when you were in such pain was an act of love to you. Again, hooray for that mom.

And if that baby (who I do suspect is nursed) so easily accepting “another mother” for her meal isn’t the BEST example of how natural breastfeeding is, I don’t know what is.

For the record, I’m not a mom… so I’ve never breastfed.
SAIA AND CHAGO Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:17 pm

Love that you and Laura, separately and together, did what you thought was right.

Love that others don’t necessarily agree and feel (sorta)comfortable voicing their opinions for the rest of the world to see (and challenge).

Love the passion the topic of breastfeeding (or not) always elicits.

And love that here in one place there are easily over 100 other bloggers that I’m excited to visit that I may have never seen otherwise.

Phenomenal times we’re living in, don’t you think?
Heather Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:20 pm

I think it was beautiful for her to offer her child to you, and for you to move past your own inhibitions to be able to nurse another woman’s child. I’d like to be able to say that I would have done the same thing, but I’d have to be in that position to know what I’d do.

It’s a shame that others have such hangups about feeding a child. They obviously haven’t learned about other cultures where any nursing mother nurses another’s baby when he or she is hungry. Or wet nurses. Or milk banks – here in the US. *sigh*
Joy Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:23 pm

To: Anon 6:41

“So the same could be said of the other blogger who everyone is so pissed off at right now? She has a RIGHT to another opinion even if it isn’t puppy dogs and rainbows.”

Absolutely. She has the right to her opinion. And if she had stuck to just stating her opinion, in a respectful manner, and chosen words that were less, in my opinion, inflammatory and not at all conducive to a civil and respectful discussion with her readers then, fine. But she did not.

The original poster chose her words poorly, and should own that choice. When anyone communicates through writing, without the context of sight and sound and the other senses that let us observe things like sarcasm and so on, too much can be misinterpreted. To prevent that, words must be carefully chosen for not only the intent, but also for the potential misinterpretations of readers for this phrase or that word. Her words were poorly chosen if she did not intend to unleash such a backlash, especially considering the polarizing topic of conversation that breastfeeding (rightly or wrongly) tends to be.
Melodie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:26 pm

Wow! I have never seen a blog with 356 comments before. I want to high five you (smack – there I high fived the monitor) for doing what you did And you just won another subscriber.
I’m sure I might have more to say to defend you having been reading about historical breastfeeding this past week. But my mind isn’t working so great today, soooo… now I want to read the other post you mentioned. Geez. Sounds awful!
Suburban Turmoil Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:27 pm

Feeling the need to add here (apologies if it’s been added already- my eyes are giving out from reading all the comments) that this whole HIV argument is ridiculous. Catherine is breastfeeding her own child, who she cares about, as we know, more than anything in the world. Would she really be breastfeeding her own child if she suspected she might possibly have HIV?

Of course, maybe she has HIV and doesn’t know it! And maybe a giant anvil will fall on my head when I step outside. You just never know what’s going to happen, do you? I think it would be as safe for a mom to take her chances with Catherine’s boobs as it would be for a mom to fly with her child on an airplane. Or leave her child in the YMCA nursery. Or, or any part of the ordinary business of day to day living. You weigh the risks here as you do with anything and the risks are ridiculously minimal.
Amy Ruth Webb Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:34 pm

My baby was born at home and very small. He desperately needed to eat, as he couldn’t afford to lose any weight at all and of course, my milk hadn’t come in yet. Both of my midwife’s assistants were nursing at the time and they both offered to nurse him. They also donated milk and some extra nursing sessions, as my son had major latch problems. I will be forever grateful to those women for extraordinary generosity. It was one of the kindest things anyone has ever done for me and my child. And by the way, I was a bit concerned about HIV afterward because a third woman whom my midwife knew, but I had never met had also donated milk. I asked my (very straight-laced) pediatrician about it and she said the possibility of transmitting HIV was negligible and not to worry at all.
Marinka Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:34 pm

This is in response to Heather’s comment ‘it’s a shame that others feel such hangups about feeding a child’,and even though I just put quote marks around it, I may be misquoting.
I don’t think that that’s what this is about. I think we’ve beaten the “HBM shouldn’t be mocked, ridiculed, shamed for her choices” horse to death and performed a postmortem on it as well, and I don’t think that there is anyone with a brain wave that disagrees with that. I mean, it’s not like she’s approaching random stangers and fastening their babies to her bosom for sport.

I have been absoliutely engrossed by this post and the comments.

But to me it’s not about nutrition. This isn’t the The Grapes of Wrath. It’s about a decision that two mothers made. If the question is, do two consenting women have a right to make that decision, then the conversation ends with a “hell, yes!” and we can all watch Real Housewives of New York in peace. But if it’s “what do you think about that decision?” then we get into the murky areas that make some people less comfortable than others and lead to a lot of hand wringing, pearl clutching and whatever other cliches are applicable.

As I’ve said before, I didn’t read the original post–but if the emails that I’ve gotten in response to my comments on this blog are accurate (that there were comments on that blog about what kind of mother the original blogger was) then that’s not cool, either.

Yes, we stand by our words. But we got to get better at the whole disagreeing thing.
N.Vasillis Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:37 pm

We need more trust like this in the world. You’re awesome!
Kim/2 Kids Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:39 pm

Bravo! As women we need to be more understanding and less judgmental of each other. Of course, more tenderness and gentleness about our differences would be world changing. My boobs ached reading this story and my little one is 10 years old.
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

I had a discussion about this with one of my good friends a few weeks ago. Her daughter was eyeing my daughter as she nursed and realized that I had two breasts. So she jumped at my other breast. I just laughed but her mother was a little uncomfortable with the situation. While I am not sure I would have actually nursed her daughter in front of her, if her daughter was in my care and hungry and her mother wouldn’t be back for a while I would have nursed her.
ms. changes pants while driving Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:55 pm

BEAUTIFUL. wonderful. empowering. encouraging.
lorrielink Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:56 pm

LMAO mommymae!
Momily Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

Your memo is great addition to the post especially after all this huge amount of comments and dissenting views. I have disagreed with you in comments before (why is it always about breastfeeding??!!) and expressed opinions different from the so-called “mob” and you have always been kind, gracious and fair. some of your followers are less than kind, gracious and fair, but you are not responsible for that other than deleting highly offensive, rude or mean comments. I agree with what (I think?) you are saying – different opinions are fine, disagreement is fine, debate and arguement are fine, but being a mean jerk is not fine.

Such are the joys of personal stuff in a public forum, I suppose.
Elisabeth Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 8:02 pm

Hmm – did I just leave a comment on a Canadian blogger’s blog saying I was interested in the position re the routine health screening of pregnant women in the States?! Sorry – late night slip of the pen – my Canadian friends and family would be ashamed of me though!

Re Suburban Turmoil’s comment – yes we all take risks in our day to day lives (often without thinking about them at all). However, our personal experiences can shape our emotional response to individual riska. My perosnal experiencs mean I am very cautious about the possibility of the (unintended) transmission of infection (however small that risk is in practice). Consequently, if I had been in Laura’s sitution, I would have offered a breast pump if I had one, not my child.

That said, I am also nervous of aeroplanes, private nurseries in the UK, and many other scenarios which ST didn’t mention (! ) which I have had no bad experiences of personally. I think this illustrates nothing more startling than the fact that I am probably a bit neurotic (:-)) or to be slightly less self deprecating about it and to make a general point – different people have different perceptions of how risky the world is. That’s all.
Meritt Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

I guess I’m so far out of the loop I’m still trying to figure out what the goldfish crackers site has to do with anything… LOL.

PS: Being out of the loop really isn’t all that bad. I hate drama. Really. Hate. It.
TopHat Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 8:17 pm

If I were in your position, I would have totally jumped on the opportunity to relieve engorgement. Sometimes warm showers aren’t enough, sometimes it’s really hard to hand express, and even pumps aren’t as efficient as a baby. As someone who’s dealt with multiple cases of mastitis, I would do anything to prevent it. Mastitis can be quite ugly and in extreme cases require surgery. When I read some of these comments that say, “Since the baby wasn’t in danger of starvation, I don’t think it was a good idea,” I wonder if they know how dangerous mastitis can be for a mom.
ms. changes pants while driving Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 8:32 pm

ps– *snicker* *giggle* *snort* at

No one ever stares lasciviously or otherwise at my muffin top or that hunk of fat at the back of my armpit. Or at the back of my knee.

and jenny’s chicken vagina eggs. can that woman ever NOT mention vagina on the internet?
pluckymama Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

You rock. Your boobs rock, that lady who let your nurse her daughter rocks. I love it all. Way to bring the aspect of community back to motherhood. Oodles of respect.
lorrielink Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:09 pm

but not everyone here is even commenting on the “drama with the other blogger”
a good half of these comments are simply ” you go girl” “what you did was great and totally ok” or “dang i know what you mean” or even the really cool ones are like “dude thats kinda weird and dont know if i woulda done the same but you do what you have to girl!”

all of which strike me as simply sharing support with stangers and friends. how is HBM perpetuating anything??

i find it confusing when people say ” you twittered it so it was up for grabs to bash” and then say “you should mind your own business cause she can blog her “opinion” if she likes” how can you not see the contradiction in that?

HBM im so glad you got such good BFF’s. they make a real difference. a real BFF will hide you in their basement if you rob a bank. and thats what you got here.

oh, and i totally would have done the same. and vice versa. only my kids such a mammas boy i think he’d take issue with it.;)
feefifoto Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

Why can’t people just mind their own business?
Ms. Moon Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

Good Lord! Thank God that when I was a nursing mother, I was a hippie. I’ve nursed other babies and other women have nursed my babies. It’s just something we did for each other as needed.
What is wrong with people these days?
Tina C. Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:17 pm

lucky you; i have always wanted to do this but was too shy to ask.
Torrie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:18 pm

I would have done the same thing if I had been in your position, and Laura is awesome for helping you out.
I’m really sick of people trying to turn breastfeeding into something disgusting.
Lisa Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:45 pm

You’re awesome. You were feeding a baby, which is a beautiful thing. Don’t let anyone else make you feel bad about it.
V Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 9:48 pm

I think what you did was a great thing. It helped both of you out and made you both feel much better.

Also one of the previous commenter mentioned something about rather having their child have another woman’s breast milk rather than formula and I agree! I would much rather that than formula!
Jennifer Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:04 pm

This was a beautiful story and I’m sorry someone else had to put her own negative emotions onto it. You did nothing wrong! Hold your head up high!
SciFi Dad Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:18 pm

You did a remarkable thing, Catherine. As a man, I will never have to make that decision, and even if I wasn’t a man, I don’t know if I could have done what you did (although if the pain was as bad as I think it could be…)

OK. Enough about me being a lactating woman.

Not that you need to be told this, but don’t listen to the trolls. In the words of Joyce, “Don’t let the bastards grind you down.”
Anonymous Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:25 pm

Knowing the pain that engorged boobs feel like, I have sympathy for you and I totally get why you did what you did.

Why do people judge others for what they do in such a negative way? GEEZ!

Multi-Tasking Mommy
http://circleoflifeblog.blogspot.com
katef - www.picklebums.com Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:30 pm

I read about this on twitter from the OP… and strangely found your blog at the same time, loved it and subbed.. not knowing the two were related!

I am not sure that I would do the same thing (though I’ve just finished expressing milk for a friend who is about to go into hospital which is not much different) but you know.. they are not my boobs, and not my baby so really it’s not my business.

But since I feel the need to insert my uncalled for opinion anyway – if everyone is happy, you the baby the other mum… then yay for boobs and babies and mums!
alice Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:33 pm

Lordy, there are a lot of comments. Most of which I haven’t read, except The Bloggess because she is all kinds of awesome and funny to boot. Love her. Point aptly noted.

I guess the only part I take exception to, even though slight, is that you sort of imply that nursing isn’t a bonding experience. Certainly, it may not be a bonding experience for you, but for some of us, it was very much a bonding experience. Not surprising since nursing promotes a release of the “mothering hormone” prolactin. And this is reinforced each time you nurse a child. It is one of the many reasons why many adoptive parents attempt to nurse.

I have no problem with wet nursing. I could do it, but it wouldn’t be the same as giving another child a bottle. For me, nursing is a bonding moment with my child. I’m not sure what it would mean if I nursed another child, but I suspect it’d be more than nourishment. I suspect I’d feel bonded, however slight and fleeting, to that child in a way that I wouldn’t to another child. I also think that I’d probably feel slightly like I was cheating on my own child.

It would still be totally worth it and a selfless act of love for another child.

But that’s just my opinion. Your results may differ.
Avitable Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:36 pm

I’m a fan of boobs in general. Except the boob who posted the obnoxious judgmental post.
juliannabelle Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:42 pm

I think what you did, and what your new friend allowed you to do for her baby, is a good thing.
I donated extra breastmilk after having my first child. There was a local lady whom had adopted a baby with horrid allergies and could only tolerate human breastmilk. Like you did, I started to go into reassurance mode- listing no major medical problems, no illicit substances, only a modicum of caffeine, etc. She stopped me and said if I felt it was good enough for my own baby it was good enough for hers. Interestingly (to me, anyways), she is one of the local neonatologists.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:42 pm

Alice – I said that I *do* bond with my son while nursing, but that the bonding maybe had less to do with the nipple in his mouth than with me holding and loving him and cherishing that moment of peace. Just as any mother with a bottle-fed baby would bond. But yes, there’s no denying the specialness. I just wanted to express that the specialness went beyond the nursing, and that nursing another child (although imtimate) would not be – and was not – the same thing.
Karen Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

screw the stupid people. i would of PAID to have someone i trusted to help nurse my oldest dd when i first started. Ugh some people are so immature… Not you. I would freaking applaud but i am typing.
Issas Crazy World Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:55 pm

I find this absolutely fascinating: the post, the subject, the comments.

What I don’t find so fascinating, is the idea that because HBM is a “popular” blogger that her opinions, feelings and friends feelings don’t count. Yes she puts herself out there, but hey, we all do that. But HBM is still a person. Catherine. A woman, a wife, a mother, a friend.

This is something that has always bothered me. Just because someone is a “popular” blogger, their friends sticking up for them is suddenly a mob. If someone was being rude to me in real life, my friends would have my back. They would probably say some not so nice things about whomever was being rude to me. When I’ve gotten asshole comments on my blog, my friends have my back. I just don’t see that it’s any different, because no one knows who I am.

Catherine has been doing this a long time, she has lots of friends. It doesn’t make them a mob to stick up for her. It makes them good friends.
lorrielink Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 10:56 pm

yes, there is an unequaled intimacy in nursing your child. until they start teething…. then some of the wonder of it all starts to fade just a little.

and when a toddler only wants ‘drive by nursing’

oh, and when their sick and their nose is stuffed up too much to nurse and their so hungry.

breastfeeding is so much beauty, so completely wholesome and nurtering to both baby and mom, but its also painful, frustrating, fearsome,messy, and a dam pain in the ass sometimes.
its just feeding your baby, boobs are boobs BECAUSE they are designed to make milk for babies. period. thats the whole reason for all the soft warm squishy fun of boobs in the first place. they just also happen to be fun at other times as well…..now whos really complaining about that?
unfortunately its mostly woman with sad hang-ups with sex that think boobs were special ordered just for sex.
i say there is no end to the multi-tasking ability of boobs.
Sherry Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 11:02 pm

At this point you have so many comments I almost feel silly speaking up at all, but for what it’s worth, I don’t see the huge deal. You were both two adults who agreed to having you nurse her baby. It’s not like you were slinking around, trying to sneak your nipple into unsuspecting babies’ mouths, you know?

Would I do it, where I in your position or Laura’s? I don’t know. I want to say yes, but maybe I wouldn’t feel comfortable when the time came. On the other hand, I certainly can’t say that I wouldn’t because maybe it would feel right to me.

I don’t know, but I do know there was nothing dirty or disgusting about it, and to turn it into something crude when it wasn’t is downright disturbing.
Velma Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 11:12 pm

(I couldn’t stay away. This is way better than reality tv, IMHO.)

After reading almost all the comments thus far, one thing becomes glaringly obvious: in most civilized societies there are guidelines for how you should treat other people, and one of the most positive human ideals is the adherence to the Golden Rule.

I’ve been reading this blog for years now, and HBM is extremely consistent in arguing for the right to say whatever you believe, in a respectful way, and frankly, that is a rule I can get behind.

(As another sidenote, I didn’t read the original offensive post before the author yanked it, but I did cruise through the archives on the site. In my opinion, when a blogger makes many negative comments about other members of the human race under the guise of milking a situation for humor or “telling it like it is,” I am turned way off by their attitude.)

(Oh, and BTW – this is not an “attack” on the other blogger, simply a statement… you guessed it! Of opinion! Which I am free to do in a respectful way and not get flamed!)
Moxie Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 11:32 pm

Breast milk is poison??? Who knew. Everyone call CPS on all those evil nursing mothers!

If someone wants to post a story about the possible problems of allowing another woman to breastfeed your child, go right ahead. If you’re a concerned citizen and that’s your cause, go right ahead. But there is a line of appropriate and inappropriate. Communicating via computers doesn’t make us robots. Words have weight.
Carrien Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 11:46 pm

Just wanted to say…

I have breastfed another woman's child before. On three separate occasions, two when I was watching their child and the baby was hungry.

I also donate breastmilk to the International Breast Milk Project to send to AIDS babies in Africa.

My mother in law has offered a breast to suckle for all 3 of my children when they were tiny and in her care. With my 3rd it was 4 hours after she was born and I was in an emergency D & C because the placenta had not yet delivered. She wrapped her in my sweater so she would have my scent and gave her a breast to suckle at until I could do it myself. It was exactly the way it should have been in my opinion, it was an act of love.

Needless to say, I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did.

I met a woman once, she was very old, her parents were living in China just before the revolution. She was an infant. Her parents were killed by the army, and she was smuggled out of the country by the Chinese church, passed from one nursing mother to another until she reached the border. Those women kept her alive by giving her their breast milk.

It's a sad statement on how women view their own bodies today that one woman would attack another for breastfeeding another's child.
CheshireKate Said,

March 10, 2009 @ 11:54 pm

I couldn’t have done this from either side, I had no breast milk for my own baby as badly as I wanted to and I tried believe me, 3 lactation specialists later it finally got to be TOO MUCH and too emotional and I just fed her formula and got back to the business of enjoying my baby which as (bless her) lactation specialist number three pointed out was the point. I had confessed I dreaded her waking up because of all the rigmarole starting and she gave me permission to move on. Anyhow it would have hurt too much for me to have another woman nursing my child when I couldn’t, BUT bravo to you. This was a private moment between two people and it wasn’t coerced or fraught with the economic or class issues that wet nursing sometimes carries. I say the level of angst that some of the non participatory moms put into this is crazed…couldn’t they devote the time to finding foster homes for unwanted kids or ending hunger or something?
HamiltonDoula Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:05 am

Six weeks after the birth of my first son, my husband and I went drove to T.O. to see Neil Young. Two hours out, my breasts were starting to fill up. I attempted to express into a paper towel while I sat on a toilet.

After the concert I was rock hard, in pain with hot, stretched breasts that were starting to leak. I again attempting to hand express, without actually knowing what I was doing, and ended up expressing a tiny bit of bloody milk. What a night!

I can only imagine how freaking sore you were after a day away. Sore, possible feverish feeling from the heat of the engorged breast, and definitely at a high risk of mastitis, blocked ducts and impairing your supply.

As a doula, I must offer scientific information so that you may make your own decision which is the basis of empowerment and making informed choices. You’ve done that beautifully, you and Laura weighing the possible risks and ruling out others, finally deciding for yourselves what you will do.
Hamilton Doula
aka
The Clever Mom
http://www.theclevermom.com
the mama bird diaries Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:07 am

Mary G –

I wrote a humorous piece about nudity on Wendi Aarons blog. Please do not lump me in with the folks who are judging Her Bad Mother. I think breast feeding is a beautiful natural amazing gift and everyone has a right to make their own decisions.
The Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:23 am

If the post I commented on was the “original” post, then I’m one of the original commentators.

I said NO. And I will continue to say NO. Loudly.

(Kateypie35, you are a brave woman)

I’m not implying that anyone has any awful, horrible diseases. But never, ever would I allow a woman who was not properly screened to nurse my baby.

I’m sure that both of you are very nice people, and that neither of you has any transmissible viruses. But we don’t know that, for sure.

Many, many viruses that can be dangerous lurk for some time before anyone knows they are there.

I nursed all four of my children, on and off for nearly eleven years. I’m a huge advocate. My mother nursed us, AND donated milk for preemies. But there was a screening process.

Even in the days when women routinely hired wet nurses, they were extensively screened (not for viruses, since they didn’t have that knowledge, but for character and lifestyle).

Again. Nothing personal. I don’t know you. You are probably an amazing person who lives in quarantine and couldn’t possibly have, say Epstein Barr virus (80% of the population has been exposed).

But I would never let another woman nurse my child. And I don’t recommend it to anyone.

BTW, most pharmacies in most major cities carry the little hand pumps. Not as good as the big electric ones, but I’ve used them on vacation, quite effectively.
Petit Elefant Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:52 am

There’s such weirdness in our culture about breasts. They’re ok for strippers, but nasty for babies? What? I had to hide the fact that I nursed my babies past 9 months because of the comments I got from other moms. People have issues with breasts. I’m so sorry. I think in many many cultures this never would have even gotten a sideways glance. sigh.
Me Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:11 am

sorry, can’t spend the time to read through all the comments (just sped-read 200 or so), but my first thought on the whole matter (maybe addressed elsewhere) is, was Laura not nursing herself? Did she then not get engorged herself? I *know*, totally off the subject, what can I say?!
Awesome Mom Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:14 am

Some people have way too much time on their hands and apparently they have to go around policing what everyone else does. I have had engorged boobs before and man it is very painful! I am glad that someone was able to be open minded enough to offer you relief for your pain.
mari'smama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:52 am

I pump, and have exclusively pumped for my ten month old since birth because she was born with a cleft palate and we are not able to nurse, despite many efforts.

Over these ten months I have donated straight from my freezer at least 1,800 oz. of milk to a mom with an adopted baby whose birth mom was drug abusing up to the birth of her child. This adopted mom has spent over a year picking up milk from donors like me to make sure her baby has the best start in life. She never asked me to get tested. She met me and my baby and took my word on being healthy and “clean.”

Now we are in the same playgroup, both babies are thriving, I am still pumping, and this experience has eased some of my sadness at not being able to breastfeed. People milkshare all the time. It’s not new and you did nothing wrong.
Veronica Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:19 am

Wow, I feel a bit odd commenting after everyone else!

In your situation? I would have done what you did. In Laura’s situation, I would have offered what she offered.

I’m sorry that someone thought that they had the right to react the way they did.
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:38 am

After my daughter went into heart failure and was diagnosed and treated for her problem, the hospital where she was seen came by once a week to pick up my extra frozen breast milk for the neonatal unit. No one ever seemed horrified or made me feel ashamed about that. So, as long as another babies mouth didn’t actually touch my horrid nipple it was a good and virtuous thing to share breast milk? Balderdash!
Gillian
Rachael Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:04 am

I admit that my first reaction was that I might think this was weird, or that it would make me uncomfortable. However, after reading your story and really thinking about it, it seems like it was a perfect solution for everyone!

I agree – breastmilk is breastmilk. Her baby got to eat, and you got to not be in terrible pain! I wasn’t able to breastfeed my baby, but if someone else had offered to feed him because I got stuck outside my home without enough formula or something, I totally would go with that.

I’m sorry that you had to deal with people being so judgy. I don’t know why people feel the need to attack each other like that – what difference does it make to that other woman what you and that other mother decided to do? None. So why waste her energy attacking and being negative? I’ll never understand that.

Kudos to you for doing it in the first place, and for sharing your story with all of us!
illahee Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:44 am

i have never nursed another baby, but a friend nursed my son. i had gone to the hospital (on a holiday. oh the joys of emergency clinics on a holiday) with my daughter. although i had fed him just before i left, we were gone long enough for him to wake up hungry (he was about six months old) and after trying to entertain him, then give him baby snacks, my friend nursed him.

he fell asleep.

when i got back from the hospital and they told me, i was totally fine with it. happy, in fact, because he was happy and taken care of while i was away on an emergency.

i kind of wish i could have nursed someone’s baby. it’s not ‘gross’ or ‘dangerous’, not in the situation you described. *sish*
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 7:25 am

Poor breasts. Their dual purpose puts them in us in such a quandary! Are they sexy or are they purposeful for feeding? Or both? Is that the root of all this?

Let’s split it into the two main ways breasts are viewed for (some attempt at) clarity in what I am trying to say.

If they are for feeding, they are serviceable, natural. and healthful. (Not everyone will breastfeed, mind you and that is fine, but it is generally and universally acknowledged as nutritious, perfect food for infants).

If we put breast milk (whether expressed or right from the source) in the “feeding camp” it is easier to be accepting of breasts’ use, and usefulness.

To take this further, could we allow that sharing breast milk is palatable in certain conditions then? (Many examples have been given in the comments, like being stuck in an elevator). Or sharing breast milk is really okay under any conditions as it is a food, and thus it is a akin to sharing food, formula, spoons, ice creams, whatever. Maybe. But let’s go to the next viewpoint of breasts in the ’sexy camp’.

If they are sexy, they are intimate, for you and your partner (only), or only in pleasurable and sexual acts. You can’t mix any of that mentality with using one’s breasts for feeding a) babies, b) older (young) children (”ugh, gross! they are actually talking!”), or sharing one’s breasts with other people’s infants (”ooh, weirdo!”, or “yeah maybe ok, but not for me”).

Trying to reconcile their dual use IS difficult. How can they be there for two such different and two such IMPORTANT things?! It is hard to wrap one’s head around.

And maybe, just maybe, because we can’t reconcile it, it seems safer to argue that we wouldn’t do it because one is not comfortable with the security of the milk, or that one might pass on a disease. (Cleanliness, or protecting one’s babies from disease — HOWEVER UNLIKELY —is a safe ground, you see. Easier than saying that it feels too close to sexual intimacy for one’s own comfort). (Please note: this particular argument (disease in milk) is different from worrying about minor milk contamination (drug, alcohol, (spicy Indian or whatever!) in the milk) which is fine to argue, and of course, valid but not here in my current argument).

It does and can get weird, or not — depending on your opinion of breasts as sexy or feeders or both, but at different times.

A lot of this thinking for me stemmed from hearing some commenters saying (and I paraphrase): it’s okay I suppose, EXCEPT I would be mostly worried that you can get/give diseases. Really? That seems like a big jump to me. What I would gently ask if if really, and I mean REALLY, it is a subconscious thing that it is not very cool to share one’s boobs because of the sexy part thing. And that talking about the risk of disease is a safe way of sharing that disdain or discomfort.

Thoughts?
Stacy Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:06 am

I would have done the same thing, even if I had not been in pain rom engorged boobies. If the other chid jsut needed to be fed and for whatever reason her mother could not fed her. Having breast milk and being able to feed your own child or someone elses is a very blessed thing!
Jennyh Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:53 am

My great grandmother nursed a neighbor’s baby during the depression because the mother did not have any milk, that child could have died, it was the depression, it was not like there was money for formula or goat milk! Did they even have formula then? People should mind their own business, if you were beating a kid in public, ok, definetly someone should step in, but you feeding them is no one’s business!
zchamu Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:15 am

I was thinking a bit about this situation this morning, and the part of this that perhaps displays the worst judgment of all is that the other blogger decided to make *this* her key takeaway from an event which she was corporately sponsored to attend. Now, all anyone’s going to identify this fishy event with is boobgate. Not the kind of attention they wanted, I’m sure.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:08 am

The Mother – I %100 support you in your opinion (and I supported KateyPie in having hers – I just engaged her on it). YOU would not do this. I understand that. I do not judge you for that. I do not think that you are closed-minded or uptight or fussy. Two weeks ago, I might have said that I wouldn’t nurse another woman’s child. I wouldn’t have cited fear of disease – it’s my opinion, based on discussion with my doctor (and supported by the nurses and doulas who have weighed in here) that the risk, if any, is negligible, and certainly much lower than risk of contaminants in formula or bacteria that might be encountered in daily life – but I might have said, simply, no, probably not. So I get, totally, that other people feel differently about this.

You expressed your opinion respectfully, and I respect that. Had the original post been respectful (that is, not willfully misrepresented the story, as she admitted to doing, and not fanned the flames of disgust), then it wouldn’t have bothered me. As I keep saying here – and as my track record in this space proves – I’m really open to disagreement. I just ask that it be reasoned and civil. As your disagreement was
Tamara Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:12 am

Brava, Mama!

I don’t know you, but I so wish I did! May ample measures of love and blessings shower down on you and on Laura for speaking the truth about our bodies, our experiences, and the ridiculousness of those who would make us ashamed of what is an innately natural and loving act.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:16 am

Anonymous 7:25 – I totally agree. While I think that some women might have very real issues/concerns about virus transmission (some commenters here have explained things to that effect), I think that in general the argument about such risk is a smoke screen for more awkward issues – like discomfort around ideas of breasts as objects – yeah, objects – of sexuality and intimacy. From what I’ve been told by medical professionals, there’s no general risk in milksharing that is any greater than other, more mundane activities (toy sharing in public playspaces, unwashed hands, bad formula, etc, etc.) I think that much – NOT ALL – of the fear around disease is that there’s an association of breasts (and anything involving bodily fluids) with sex and a general tendency to ick.

Again, I’m not judging anyone who is skeeved by the idea. I can understand it. I just wish that we were all more open to changing our attitudes and society’s attitudes to these things – more inclined to consider the possibility that something like this isn’t gross (despite what one’s visceral reaction is) and to understand that issuing moral judgments based on such visceral reactions just hurts all of us.
Tamara Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:19 am

Adding that physiologically, a nursing mother has undergone nearly every possible medical screening already, between the pregnancy and birth of her child.
This fear-mongering about illness and disease assumes that we know nothing of our own medical histories and even less about how physiology works. If you wouldn’t do it, say so. But don’t attack another for your own knee-jerk reactions and faulty assumptions.
zchamu Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:38 am

Tamara – “This fear-mongering about illness and disease assumes that we know nothing of our own medical histories and even less about how physiology works. If you wouldn’t do it, say so. But don’t attack another for your own knee-jerk reactions and faulty assumptions.”

Nail. Head. Etc.
Katie Kat Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:44 am

I was really looking forward to this post after reading the Twitter comments. I honestly wasn’t sure WHAT I felt about the situation because I had never heard both sides of the story. I remember hearing about Salma Hayek doing the same thing, and found myself really sort of unsure about how I felt. Now, having read your story, I feel enlightened.

It’s not that I see this as some sort of “magical” “Goddess-like” thing, but then again, I don’t see it as disgusting. Your beautifully written feelings about it honestly made me say “Well, why not?” You were being responsible and weren’t just attaching a random kid to your breast. You were helping yourself and the baby. You were pushing the envelope to be sure, and that’s why I think people reacted the way they did.

I’m not sure women really DO know how they feel about this. I think it’s the “oogy” factor of not really being AGAINST it, but not being sure you’d do it yourself. Maybe similar to how some people feel that being gay is fine, but seeing a gay couple kissing, etc. makes them uncomfortable and unsure. I don’t know.

What I do know is what you did is really not much different than women who are surrogates. They use their entire body to nurture, grow and give birth to a baby for another person. Breastfeeding is more public than that, but not so dissimilar.

I applaud your bravery in doing this and in sharing it so that other people can examine and discuss it (hopefully in a way that is MATURE and enlightening) so that they can come up with their own conclusions. BRAVO.
Marinka Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:45 am

Tamara–why is it faulty assumptions to express concern that another woman may have breast milk, that for whatever reason, and totally unrelated to her moral character and dignity as a human being, would not be ok for your baby?

HBM wrote that the issue is about trust–
Under what circumstances do we choose to trust or not trust each other, to take each others’ words, or not do? Laura trusted me when I said that I was healthy and not taking anything that might compromise my milk. Perhaps this had everything to do with my appearance, or with the fact that I was obviously a nursing mother, or perhaps just with the fact that she had decided that I was simply worth trusting. I was moved by this.

If all nursing mothers were “safe”, however it is that we define that word in terms of our children, would there be a need for trust, even?
April Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:51 am

don’t know if you saw when cjane blogged about co-op nursing… i love the way she puts is ‘…which is something we do in our family, we are tight like that’

it’s good to be tight like that. and trusting.

http://blog.cjanerun.com/2008/10/heavenly-fire.html
Katherine Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:52 am

More power to you! Having suffered the horror that is mastitis 3 times with my current baby and twice with babies one and two I can understand the need to get that milk flowing. Expressing just doesn’t compare to the power of a baby nursing. Well done to you. Never heard of “Fishful Thinking” until now…had to grit my teeth just to scroll through it…
kateypie35 Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:04 am

This is off topic, but I want to thank everyone who has e-mailed me, messaged me, called me brave, etc. I appreciate it very much.

I really wish all the anonymous posters would join me, show your face… as Mom101 said…own your words. If we can ALL learn how to disagree respectfully and with class and grace – we can have such interesting and dynamic debates! These brouhahas would never happen!

When people (on BOTH sides) turned mean and caustic – that’s when it feels like one giant schoolyard – “neener neener, she started it!”. And thats when impressions of “posse’s and gang mentality” start to spread. (wrong or right, the impression really is there). I think we ALL (on BOTH sides) need to try to take the high road, even if its hard, even if someone else hurt us first, even if you feel defensive.

Hopefully the blog owner that inadvertently began this has learned to be more thoughtful and responsible for her content, but she isn’t the only one who needs to learn from this. I learned too – I have really been thinking about it a lot. Anyone else?
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:04 am

I never comment on anything, but I had to say I think that’s beautiful; I think both you and Laura sound like warm, thoughtful women. The world got a little friendlier when you two found a simple solution to a situation.
Mamajama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:05 am

I’m really surprised that this has sparked such a controversy. It seems like no big woop to me. It was your decision and Laura’s decision. I’m always glad to hear more moms talking about breastfeeding, because like you I think that society has a major issue with treating breasts only as sexual objects.

I wouldn’t let anyone who was on any meds. Nurse my daughter…I’m anal like that…and didn’t even take my pain meds for a week after my c-section, but like I said it’s a personal choice. I have no problem letting mothers make their own choices. No one else is as good at deciding what is best for our families.

I’m pregnant and still nursing. Most of my friends wouldn’t make that choice, but I know what’s best for us (period). No extra discussion necessary.
Joyce Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:07 am

I feel silly being comment 421… because, really, what else is there to say?! But I guess I am just adding to those that are amazed at how one little, personal act can spur such criticism, anger and judgment. Whoa!
The most popular (and well-written) bloggers are those who can report their experiences and stories without a need to insult others. Every time I leave the house I am guilty of casting judgments on others and making my own opinions based on stereotypes, preconceived notions… and well, not fact! I hate that this is true, but we all do it. The point is, when you write a blog you must consider who you are blogging about and whether you are reporting something presented in your own opinion to spur an honest discussion, or something that is your judgment disguised as a fact. This is when things become slanderous and most celebrities do fight back (or sue) when a newspaper or some other public means of communication contorts the facts to bring them down. Especially in this case, where you are a well-known, celebrity blogger, this person who wrote those things should have known what she was doing. You have every right to fight back and present your case.
I don’t understand the comments that say you are now fighting back in the same way as this woman and creating some kind of mob mentality against her. She printed untrue things and you are now stating what did happen and that you are hurt. That’s being assertive and is a healthy response. It isn’t your fault what the commentators do with that. For the most part, the comments have been compassionate and kind.
You have retorted in an amazing way, without condemning the other writer, but also you did what every other person out there would do–stand up for themselves, regardless of what the situation is.
This isn’t even about boobs anymore, it’s just about being a public persona who has been slandered and retorting to it.
I’m sorry you were hurt and I hope lots of lessons were learned.

P.S. I’m also so grateful for people like you and Laura. Imagine what this world would be like if we all treated everyone else’s children with the amount of care and compassion that we treat our own? Thank you for this.
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:10 am

I’m sorry but I guess I’m in the minority. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That’s all the other poster did and without mentioning names. You’re telling me these 1000’s of tweeters and blog posters knew who you were before your so called “friend” outed you? I think you need to get over yourself. It was a blog post only. And your “friend”? What was the reasoning behind that? I also think you and “Laura” should have been more discreet. And Laura took a very big chance by having a total stranger breastfeed her baby. She knew nothing about you. And that doesn’t mean I’m saying anything bad about you, but hey. how would she know? This is her child! I would never put my baby in possible jeopardy like that. If you were in pain, you could have had the concierge buy a pump. And for a supposedly organized mother, how could you forget something so crucial? All I can say is ewww!! My opinion only. Just as you voiced yours in your post. And the same as the other blogger. The difference? she didn’t start a hate campaign.
Kendra Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:12 am

Catherine, I would have done the same as you did in that situation. I would have been insanely relieved and insanely honored to do it.

Shame on Goldfish crackers lady.
Jennifer Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:14 am

I have very mixed feelings, for myself, about this. On the one hand, knowing that it’s natural, women have wet nursed, etc. since time immemorial, I feel like I should say, “Woohoo!” On the other, my reaction seems rooted in (what seems like) the cultural taboo of only permitting a woman to nurse their own child and the mixed messages – e.g., breast feeding is best and if you don’t you’re a bad mother; but don’t do it in public or anywhere you might offend someone’s delicate sensibilities, etc. – that society sends.

That said, I remember how I longed to nurse my nieces (regardless of whether I was nursing at the time) that came from some primal place inside that wanted to comfort and feed them as well as to have that flush of pride that comes from knowing that you can sustain life from just your boobs!

So, for all that, clearly we (society) need to work on the issues surrounding breastfeeding so that women, doing what we are capable of, are not shamed or denigrated for it, especially by other women.
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:40 am

Blogging is for voicing your own opinion, yes? You do it, why not leave others alone to do it, too.

Oh, and your “Let’s be kind” idea – hello pot, my name is kettle.
zchamu Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:49 am

@anonymous 11:10: You said “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That’s all the other poster did and without mentioning names.”

Why does it matter that she didn’t name names? She knew who she was talking about, as did the person she was talking about. Just because she didn’t “out” her to the world doesn’t make what she said, or what others said, any less hurtful. In fact, hiding behind “naming no names” is pretty cowardly since it allows her to not to have to own her words.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

Anons from this morning:

There has been no hate campaign. I have never named this blogger, or linked to her, or told anybody where to find her. NO ONE. That my readers found it and that friends defended me – well, I’m grateful to be defended by such good people. (No, she didn’t name me either – but the post was clearly about me – enough that dozens of people identified it and told me about it – and it was, as I’ve said before and say again below, misrepresentative.)

Defense against what? NOT contrary opinion. Everyone is welcome to disagree, as I’ve said a gajillion times. What they’re not free to do without expecting response: posting misleading information/misrepresenting a story about another individual. The other blogger admitted to misrepresenting what she said about me. They are also not free to defame, which is what she did when she accused me on Twitter (apropos of nothing at all) of irresponsible drinking while nursing.

So.
Joyce Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:06 pm

@Anonymous 11:10: Catherine has repeated at numerous times, and I agree, that sharing your opinion, be it contrary or not, is welcome. I’m not trying to attack you, but the comment “Get over yourself” and “All I can say is ewww!!” lowers the tone and uses high school language to express that you found this situation distasteful, without really explaining why. I am also curious as to why Laura and Catherine should have been more discreet? They didn’t feel they were doing anything wrong. It would be interesting to explore your feelings behind these statements and what has made you against what happened without using such a critical tone. I also don’t think Catherine needs to feel like she’s done something wrong because she stood up for herself. Most people would do the same if put in a situation where someone else wrote about something they did in a bad light. She was hurt and responded in a very adult way. I don’t see the problem?
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

This is a difficult comment for me to write and I’m saddened that I have to write it anonymously. I’m relatively new to the blog world, but from what I see, the mentality of a number of commenters here would leave me no other choice. However, I hope that doesn’t take away from my message. Because Catherine, I really do like you. I think you’re a fabulous writer and I’d be lucky to have a tenth of your talent. And honestly, this isn’t about whether I agree or disagree with you on this cross-nursing issue or what I think of the other blogger (never heard of her before, and didn’t see her post). It’s not my place (or anyone’s, for that matter) to judge her, you, or Laura.

This is about the bigger issue of the fallout here, and what keeps happening throughout the small blog world. (And it really is small, as we all saw here, despite the protesting from both sides that no one ID’ed anyone by name.) The fact that when people who aren’t in the “in” crowd make a less-than-positive assessment of a member of the “A-Team” or simply dare to disagree, they very ofen get painted as “mean” or “trolls,” oftentimes by the most notoriously mean members of the group of bigtime bloggers. (I’m not saying that REAL jerks don’t exist, but it’s funny how all dissenters seem to get lumped together as haters, while the A-Listers with harsh personalities are given a free pass for what they call “snark.”) You have power, Catherine, and I’m sure you’re aware of it. When you cry “foul!” they will all come running. Your close blog buddies and all the followers who want to be included.

What I truly don’t get here is how you could be surprised that nursing another woman’s baby in public and then apparently repeatedly Twittering about it wouldn’t touch off a firestorm. Even your most ardent supporters here have unwittingly acknowledged that possibility by saying that America is “puritanical” and that people are “so closed minded.” It would be GREAT if the world was such that no one judged you for doing what you did. But we don’t live in that world. So again, why wonder aloud at the few negative reactions to it?

For the record, I know all too well the pain of severe engorgement, and the delicate balance that goes into what we choose to share on our sites. You tend to share more than I do, and THAT’S OKAY, as it’s your decision. But again, when we put all of it out there, especially someone as popular as you, odds are good that someone, SOMEWHERE isn’t cool with something you say/do. That’s the way the blog world IS, and it’s not necessarily an awful thing. It keeps us–ALL of us– in check.

Which leads me to my last point. (I know, this is long. Sorry.) You got a ton of positive comments here. Why focus on the small number of negative ones? So man people (including me) love your writing. So many people support you on this. That’s abundantly evident. So why isn’t that enough for you? Or your followers? (I know the second question isn’t really for you, but maybe one of them can answer…I really am curious.) The fact that people were asking for a link I the other blogger’s site so they could yell at her, the fact that people are seething over this, the fact that some of your supporters are saying anyone who doesn’t like what you did is anti-breastfeeding…this is madness. From what I gather, the other blogger’s post was misleading. But at the end of the day (again, this is from what I gather, so please let me know if I’m wrong), she was, after all, stating her opinion on what she saw. And for the life of me, really and truly, I don’t understand how that “shamed” you. Must we all see eye-to-eye on this issue?

I think–and I say this respectfully and genuinely, NOT nastily AT ALL–you might want to revisit some incredibly apt and eloquent words you yourself wrote only a few months ago:

“Criticism is almost always uncomfortable. Criticism, indeed, kinda sucks most of the time. Even when it turns out to be really helpful and promoting of growth yadda yadda blah, it’s just not the funnest thing, you know? And of course, criticism that comes in plainspoken – or snarky – terms is the least funnest thing of all. But here’s the thing: if we condemn anyone who utters criticism or makes critical observation – again…[the] crime here was…making an (albeit stinging) critical observation – we silence ourselves, to our detriment. Criticism keeps us, and our community, self-aware and self-reflective. Yeah, it stings, but that’s why Socrates referred to himself – the greatest and most uncompromising of critics – as a gadfly: because no meaningful criticism fails to sting.”

I have read over this and over this, debating whether or not to hit “post,” and I’ve tried my hardest to ensure that I’ve conveyed my points here with respect and courtesy. To the extent you or your readers find it objectionable, I apologize for the offense, but not for the message.
paperfairies Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

I’m commenting again because I feel the need to say that Catherine has always been open to (and in fact likes) RESPECTFUL discussions. To say otherwise is unfounded and untrue. I commented on this early on with a somewhat dissenting view, and she responded back, engaging in thoughtful, kind debate.

She is a beautiful example of an anti-mommy-war-blogger. I did not feel bullied at all.
*
Must add in response to equating wet-nursing with riding on planes and eating out: although it is true a segment of society has cultural hang-ups with boobs feeding babies, the visceral reaction (as you put it) one gets when thinking of another woman breastfeeding your child is instinctual and not to be ignored! I am positive that most mothers would think twice about it. The “I would so the exact same thing in a heartbeat!” somehow seems a bit unrealistic.

Would you have done the same thing if you were Laura?
Ashley Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

When Salma Hayek nursed that African child, I was called to address how I feel about this topic in my own mind. At first, I said, “hmm… interesting.” And then I read a Newsweek opinion on the matter, and my real feelings emerged.

Newsweek, in The Dignity
Index, said they “still think Salma Hayek breasfeeding a
hungry AFrican baby-on camera-during a relief tour is just, well weird” and gave her a score of 7 which corresponded to “mildly tacky” on their chart.

Here is what I wrote to the Newsweek Editor: Compassion and generosity are never “mildly tacky”. I hope that more mothers have the courage to nourish children who are starving and sick, if not directly then via milk donations. I applaud Salma Hayek for bringing attention to this important issue. Breastmilk can save lives. The ignorance apparent in your dignity index is appalling.

And there it was. I admired Hayek for nursing a child that was not her own. And I WISH I had the courage to do the same … and stand up for what I believe in the face of cultural scorn.

I applaud your courage. Or if not courage, your ability to ignore societal mores and go with your gut. Breasts are a beautiful gift and their power is SO much greater than what is assigned to them by the cover of Maxim magazine.

*BIG HUGS* I’m sorry you got hurt.
lorrielink Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 12:58 pm

can the anonymous people at least give themselves a nick-name(s). i cant tell if its one person or many. anonymous commenters usually only comment once so im loosing track in this train.

my thoughts on sexiness and breastfeeding? if i understood your comment right, and im not sure i did. my answer would be.

there is nothing more UNSEXY than breastfeeding.
my thoughts are that you have obviously never breastfed, or been close and had open conversation with a woman who had been doing it for a while.
it would take too long to explain just how very very unsexed breastfeeding is to someone whos never experianced it. kinda like explaining childbirth to a childless woman. you just cant.
seriously if you thinks its a crossover of how it feels to have “sexiness with your boobs” than your having the wrong kind of sex.
in fact, most of us put up “out of order” signs on our boobs for a while during nursing months because our boobs feel less like “fun bags” than ever, physically and emotionally.
SAIA AND CHAGO Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

Commented here earlier, but was moved to further post a full response on our blog at http://saiaandchago.blogspot.com/2009/03/whos-boobs-your-boobs.html
Mamajama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:26 pm

I’m frustrated with the anonymous folks who are saying that Catherine should not be defending herself against the post that called her out in the first place. Anonymous 12:24, I really think that you have missed something here. Catherine to my knowledge is not trying to silence anyone for criticizing her, and in fact by bringing this discussion to her own blog is in my opinion elevating the discussion.

It’s kind of a weird argument therefore to tell her to take the criticism without giving any herself when the other blogger (in many peoples’ opinions) is very deserving of criticism herself. Sure some people are being snarky, but I haven’t seen Catherine be snarky. Discussion is an organic process (sometimes a painful one), and that’s what the blogosphere is about…and I wouldn’t want to change that.
Marinka Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

OT (because I’m trying to win some kind of an award for commenting the most on this post) but whenever people respond “Anonymous 2:14″, it makes me think that they’re quoting the Bible. Of course I don’t read the Bible, so perhaps that explains a lot.
Animal Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:37 pm

I don't have breasts – well, none that are worth milking, anyway, and which will hopefully disappear with lots & lots of running – but I enjoyed your writing tremendously. I'm always amazed at this power women seem to have, a connectedness to each other that, frankly, most men seem baffled by.

I'm convinced that, one blog post at a time, you're changing the way people think. Thank you.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

Anonymous 12:24 – I appreciate your comment. I do. Believe me, I ask myself ALL THE TIME (and certainly many times over the past two days) why I am (sometimes) bothered by (certain) judgments (the corollary – and why not others?) So, you’ve made me think. Thanks. (I think )

The fast answer is: I get bothered by things that either a) hit a nerve (things that I think *might* be right; I usually try to address these honestly) and b) things that I think are wholly unfair. What happened this week falls into the latter category. As I have stated at length, I don’t mind that anyone has disagreed with what I did. I expected as much. Had I published the first 2/3’s of the above post (as planned) without knowledge of the other post, I would have closed with a “what would you do? would you do it?” because I am sincerely interested in others’ opinions on this subject. But the post in question wasn’t a differing opinion – it was, as you note, a misrepresentation of what happened for the purposes of eliciting a disgusted response. And the disgusted response was alarming: terrible suggestions were made about me (not least, the suggestion by the author herself, in comments and repeated yesterday on Twitter, that I might have been drinking.) It was mean-spirited and hurtful. Should I have had thicker skin about it? Maybe. But is it surprising that I didn’t? And aren’t I entitled to reflect upon and express my hurt?

The fact that I’m a ‘bigger blogger’ – whatever that means – does not or should not – mean that I don’t get to express my hurt. I didn’t send anyone to that blog; indeed, I only heard about the post after tons of people had already found it and started discussing it. And as a few people have said – the fact that friends and readers defended me against borderline defamatory discussion (insofar as the description of what happened was dishonest, and admitted to be so by the author) (the Twitter accusations may have in fact crossed that border) does not, I don’t think, translate into an attack by a pack. Had people been jumping on her for disagreeing with me – I would have been vocal about discouraging that. But people jumped on her for publishing a misleading story and for egging on a discussion that involved people – including her – suggesting that I might have been drunk, that I’m the type of person to bare my breasts in bars, etc.) (not even touching the AIDS thing). They defended my honor, to put it archaically. Do I not deserve that, simply because I’m popular?

Perhaps the answer is no. Perhaps I can’t expect to be NOT be treated disrespectfully, simply because I put my life out there and get some attention for doing so. Perhaps I do not have the right to respond, simply because so many people would support me and that skews some cosmic discursive balance. Perhaps. But if so, I really need some help understanding why.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

paperfairies – I may need to write more about this, but as I’ve said to a few people, if you asked me two weeks ago whether I would nurse another woman’s child, I would have said that I didn’t know. I would have probably hovered in the direction of probably not, but I wouldn’t have been able to explain why.

Would I have allowed another woman to nurse my son? Unequivocally, yes.

Why the two different responses? I don’t know. I’m still thinking about that. Many of these comments are helping with that, some are confusing the issue.

Bottom line: I get why it’s complicated.
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:50 pm

hi lorrielink
Sorry it’s me: sexy vs. feeder boobs anonymous. I didn’t make my comment clear if that is what you thought. I can’t comment more as — weird timing — my babe is calling me to be fed. But quickly, I was trying to say that our breasts serve two purposes and it is really really hard to reconcile the two sometimes. Not do they/will they feel sexy when feeding but how can they be one thing one time and another another time! (Sry, not very good response but really must go now.)
Ciao.
MJMILLS Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 1:52 pm

well said ANON 12:24!!!!!
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

Marinka – I am laughing out loud at your most recent comment. Also, I was going to respond to an earlier comment of yours that prompted a thought, but I’ve lost track of where that comment was AND I lost track of my thought, so. Sorry. It was probably good
lorrielink Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

lol @ Marinka, i thought the same thing.

@ anonymous sexy vs. boobs. thank you, that totally does help clear that up. i probably had milk brain when i read it too.
it is totally true that the fuller your breasts get the emptier your head gets.

ok, so i would say that yes, it can be confusing – in the beginning. if this is new to you, and i would say its new if you are on your first child (which is brain function defying enough by itself) and you have never had a good nursing influence in your life before this (i didnt) and if you are still in your first year nursing that your feelings are totally normal on the confusion of “i thought they were one thing, now i feel diffently” thang.
i say its a path, its not instant, follow your hart, trust your instinks, clearly define your boundrys. yes your babe gets priority #1 on boob useage now, and you may wonder if youll ever get them back to yourself. the answer is yes, you do. in time. your time. you choose. there are still your breasts right now. you can say no, or not right now, or just a minuet with your boobs to anyone, even your babe. your boobs!
although it usually goes easier after the 6 months mark. unless your my kid.

HBM@ sorry if im hijacking, i cant say anything better about your situation than some of the brilliant peeps who already have.
Suzie Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

YOU GO GIRL!!!! There’s not enough community and sharing as it is these days…and you hit the JACKPOT. Very proud of you for being open enough to say yes!!!!
Janna Bee Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

Okay, so NOW some tweets I read earlier are making sense.

My boobs ached just reading this, and I haven’t nursed a child in 7 months. I completely understand that pain! It’s unbearable. I can’t believe someone would say something like that!
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:24 pm

Notice to everyone: from hereon in I will be deleting comments that ignore my addendum to the post above. (Also, any comment that seems to me to be sock-puppetry.) I’m tired of stating that this is not about disagreeing with someone else’s opinion – a quick (ha!) survery of the comments to this post will demonstrate that dissent is accepted and supported (by me) – but about responding to a post that – BY THE ADMISSION OF THAT BLOGGER – misrepresented what happened and was intended to incite and that hosted a comments thread in which the author made at least one borderline defamatory comment about to me.

This post provides the only firsthand account of what happened.

If I am defensive, I am defensive about people tilting at windmills, directing their arrows at something that is not an issue for me. Repeat: there is NO ISSUE HERE about disagreeing with anyone’s opinion, at least not from me. Seriously. Disagree all you want. Just stay on point with terms of discussion. And don’t call me gross.

Done with that.
Mamajama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:51 pm

anon 3:01, you seem to have some major issues with breastfeeding moms altogether since you are calling us all a bunch of self proclaimed disabled people with entitlement syndromes (excuse me, but what the hell does that mean?). Bloggers put themselves and their lives out there. Sometimes the feedback is painful to them. We (the normal readers) love HBM for being honest about how she feels on issues.

I also don’t appreciate being compared to the third Reich (a group that systematically tried to exterminate a race of people) for the way I choose to feed my children. I think you should tone your rhetoric down a bit.
Fascists don’t like to be taunted. Mwahahahaha.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

Anons (who I am going to delete but GOD HELP ME I cannot help but respond):

1) It’s a fine distinction between calling an act disgusting and a person disgusting. Homophobes make it all the time. I’m not interested in hosting that discussion. You want to post that topic somewhere else, fine. Not here.

2) There are dozens upon dozens of comments here that disagree civilly and which outline risks, etc, and fears concerning same. i am happy to host those. So accusations that I closing comments to anyone who disagrees with me are entirely baseless.

3) My space, my rules. You don’t like it, don’t like me, you are free to not play here.

All respect.
Karen Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

Catherine, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing this via your tweets and the first part of this post. Blogging drama aside (although I am sorry you were hurt), the whole story puts the idea of shared nursing out there to be thought about and discussed.

When my daughter was born @ 25 wks and I was trying so hard to pump and could only produce a few precious drops at a time, I remember commenting to a nurse in the NICU that I wished I knew another BF mom who could donate some milk to my daughter and lend me her baby to help with my supply issues. This seemed kind of natural to me, but the nurse was horrified and scolded “I know you’re upset, but I can’t imagine any woman doing something like THAT!” Note, that this was my fourth child and I really should have been beyond anyone being able to question or judge my parenting, but her comment stung and I never brought it up again. I wish with all my heart that I hadn’t been so thin-skinned and had discussed this with friends and family – I may have found someone in a position to help and saved my nursing relationship with my daughter. (No, I’m not blaming the nurse for my reaction, I own it and she was entitled to her opinion – I DO blame her for not mentioning the existence of Human Milk banks, but this was the same nurse who consistently said “I don’t know WHY you’re putting yourself through this, she’ll be just fine with formula” and that’s a whole ‘nother story)

Anyway, my rambling point here is that talking about it openly and naturally like you did might help some other Mom in a similar situation feel more comfortable bringing up the idea and perhaps finding the help she needs.
Amy @ Milk Breath and Margaritas Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

Hi. Your ass-double here, late to the partay. Someone may have already sent you this link, complete with the video:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1878917,00.html

Interesting article about this anyway. I had no idea this was even a “thing.”

I think personally what you did was just fine.

I think some of the comments on the other site (I didn’t go there, I’m just looking at what you related here) are shameful.
IDisposable Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

I can tell you that what you did was a wonderful thing, a natural thing, something every close-knit society would and should applaud.
I only disagree with one thing you wrote. It’s NOT okay for someone to find what you did distasteful. It’s a clear indication of the decay of selflessness and person responsibility in this society. Anyone that protests this nurturing is lacking something profound in their own soul.

I’m probably not the only man to post here, but rest assured that many of us respect, envy and fully understand the sacrifices that breat-feeding requires. I honor you and your decisions.
Amy @ Milk Breath and Margaritas Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:11 pm

AND – I love Animal’s comment. Best one I think!
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:18 pm

So now because people don’t agree with it, they’re missing something in their soul???

This is why breastfeeding discussions go so badly. I don’t understand why people have to be so “nazi” about it and it turn into bashing the people who have issues with it.
kateypie35 Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

I must take offense to that comment IDisposable. Its rather hurtful to state that anyone that disagrees, even the respectful ones, are “lacking something profound in their soul”.

Um, no I am not.

I am a nursing mother. Actually, the other blogger also nursed her children.

Just because someone states that they personally would not let a stranger nurse their child, (ONE facet of nursing possibilities) does NOT make someone against breastfeeding completely. As HBM stated herself, its complex.

That is one theme that keeps being repeated that is really confusing to me. “Oh, they think breastfeeding is dirty, oh they think breastmilk is poison, oh they need to get over their squeamishness around boobs,” etc. Why are people making that jump? The other blogger, nor I, nor any of the others who disagreed here, NEVER said anything against breastfeeding as a whole – just that they would not participate in cross nursing. (Maybe one Anon person said public bfing is icky, but that was NOT even close to a majority opinion.)

I will repeat. I would never let a stranger nurse my child. That is my decision, and I have valid concerns for choosing that side of this debate.

However, maybe I need to state what else I believe, so its clear? I believe nursing is beautiful and wonderful. I cannot imagine not nursing my child. I feel blessed that I am able to nurse. I do not have a boob phobia. Boobies are natural and wonderful and mine are made to give my child comfort and food. I can separate my feelings of my breasts being a sexual pleasure with my husband, and my breasts as nourishment for my child. I myself was breastfed. I am not squeamish about boobs, boobs are cool! My child is 13 months old, and I will continue to nurse him as long as he wants. I nurse in public. Often. I support other women who nurse in public. Often. I am educated. I have taken a course to be a breastfeeding counselor in my area. I applaud extended nursers. My husband supports me and my child and our breastfeeding relationship. I am kind. I am caring. I am loving. I am a woman. I am a Momma. GO BOOBIES!!!
kateypie35 Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

Oh, and see that little delicious face that is in my avitar? That is my darling boy, in a milkie coma after drinking from my BOOBS. In fact, maybe he wants to nurse RIGHT NOW!
Issas Crazy World Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

Still the best discussion in the blog world in months. Seriously, I can’t seem to stay away.

One thing though: Catherine a while ago, a few (40ish) comments ago…I’m forgetting the time, but you said this: “Perhaps I do not have the right to respond, simply because so many people would support me and that skews some cosmic discursive balance.”

Not true. Completely not true. Please, please don’t believe this.
Massachusetts Mom Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:19 pm

Clearly anyone who has a problem with this has never had her/his boobs hurt from being overfull. It is horrible.

Good for you – and even better for you to write about it.
Penny Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:29 pm

I do not think this is such a big deal. I am curious why some people are so emotional about it either way. I also think it is interesting that Catherine is being celebrated for doing something so “brave.” I do not think she should be villified or celebrated. She was in pain and looked for some relief. It isn’t like she was feeding a starving country. I do not mean to be disrespecful at all, I just wonder where is the middle ground here?
Mom101 Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:35 pm

Hi Anonymous 11:10

I’m that “so-called friend” (term and quotes yours) who named Catherine in that thread.

It had to be done.

If the original post and comments remained live, you would see that my motives and rationale were perfectly reasonable – I was bringing a human face and name to the horrible, hurtful comments being slung about a situation that had already been discussed in public forums like twitter. And on this very blog.

Catherine and this blogger share more than 500 twitter followers in common. I was not telling tales out of school.

I found the original post because I clicked on a link from a comment the blogger had left elsewhere. And I’m not the only one. Because at that point, dozens of bloggers had already emailed Catherine about it.

See how this works?

We are all interconnected.

I’m not a mean girl by any standards, I’m not a troll, and I’m not hiding behind anonymity. So let’s clear that right up.

Oh and one more thing? Catherine hasn’t questioned my friendship and neither should you.
jessica Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

I wish this would let me enter an email address but omit the URL, I don’t care if YOU know who I am but I’m not interested in garnering attention from the people who did not get your memo.

Anyway, just my name will have to do.

I’ve got a wriggling nursling on my lap so forgive me for not reading the hundreds of other comments. I just wanted to chime in with my own story.

I am so confused by America’s attitude towards nursing. It just continually blows my mind that such an innocent thing is constantly shunned by the masses. We are so messed up here. These issues aren’t issues in other countries (to my knowledge).

My mother nursed my cousin when my cousin was a baby. My mother was babysitting and my cousin was accustomed to breastfeeding, missing her mother, and would not take a bottle. My mom popped her on and everyone was happy. My cousin’s mother was grateful, not disgusted.

I nursed my best friend’s baby when my friend was volunteering at the Utah Winter Olympics. She too was used to breastfeeding and my friend specifically asked me to babysit knowing I’d be able to nurse her child, having given birth to my own some months before.

I nursed my aunt’s newborn during a horrific time when my aunt was dealing with a retained placenta, a blood clot, and a pulmonary embolism just a week after giving birth.

When a new mom was ill and her grandmother was trying to get her grand-daughter to take a bottle at church, I offered to nurse the baby seeing how upset both grandma and baby were (baby refused bottle). She politely told me no thanks, but I would have if she had been comfortable or felt it was needed.

When a woman in my neighborhood died unexpectedly in a car crash, my friend who had a little baby at the time rushed to help the family breastfeed the 2 month old infant she left behind. She continued to nurse that baby until they got him used to a bottle.

I had NO idea any of this could possibly misconstrued as disgusting or foul. I had no idea anyone would ever look on this aid as inappropriate. Of course I didn’t know then that breastfeeding even your OWN child could cause a fuss either. I of course know better now; I know how people react. How things that are foreign or different to their way of thinking can shock and appall. But it doesn’t change what I’d do. If your baby needs some milk and I’ve got some, I wouldn’t hesitate to help. I don’t understand how this can be viewed as anything less than good.
Jane M Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 6:01 pm

It’s been a while since I felt this good about being single and child-free.
Sarah @ BecomingSarah.com Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

You know, I was at another website the other day that was discussing wet nurses and the validity in this day and age.

What I came up with is that I would not do what you have done with Laura’s baby – but not for the reasons you think. I have an autoimmune disorder. My immune system is hyperactive and I have taken a substantial number of immuno-suppressant drugs over the years. Should they have leeched out of my body by now? Yes. CAN I GUARANTEE THAT? No. And I would never want to put another woman’s child in the position of intaking something into their body that could harm them in a way that it might not harm my own child’s body. In addition, I’m a chicken shit about potentially getting thrush from another baby and passing it on to my own, BUT in a case like your own I can’t honestly say that would be my primary concern. I’d be more worried about harming the other woman’s baby somehow.

I’ve thought, too, about whether or not I’d be willing to provide my baby to a woman like yourself under those circumstances, and I think that I would. I probably wouldn’t want to – after all, you would be passing on a normal level of antibodies to a baby that would likely need and be accustomed to the higher level of antibodies that my body produces. In addition, at such a young age, I may not know whether or not my baby has inherited my disease, which means that it is possible that your diet may disrupt my child’s digestion in unforeseen and phenomenally negative ways. But what is one feeding in the grand scope of things if it will alleviate some pain and if the odds are that I could handle even the most extreme of potential outcomes with my child’s short-term health?

So I’d probably have offered my child up too.

I just would be scared to death to feed yours.

There is no ick factor here – biology is biology all the way around – and there is no judgment as it’s none of my concern how other people parent so long as abuse or neglect are not involved (and this certainly does not constitute either). I don’t really agree or disagree with the choice that you and Laura made, because I’m neither of you and don’t know what is best for either of you or your children or your bodies. I haven’t read the five million comments before me, but I hope that more people than not are at least on a similar wavelength with me here.

Not that it’s wrong to disagree with me. I just can’t believe that we’ve all come so far and fallen so far at the same time.
gatorgumbo@rocketmail.com Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 6:34 pm

I think we would all have to agree that this situation is not the “norm”. Maybe some day it will be, but we’re all just not there yet. I don’t know if I want to be there myself. I’m just not comfortable with the idea of someone else breastfeeding my child to relieve THEIR discomfort. Maybe if my child was starving and it would aide them (my child) in some way, I would consider it, but just because an acquaintances boobs are hurting (and I KNOW what you were feeling) that is not enough of a reason for me to put myself, nor my child, out there for people to judge me. In a public place. I would also feel kind of crummy, after the fact, to find out that my child is somewhat in the center of a story that has gone ugly on the internet.

I think the cheers stating how courageous an act this was speaks volumes as to how uncomfortable most people are with the idea. Even those who are commenting with support. Normal everyday things don’t need courage. They just are.

With that being said, I don’t think you are a horrible person and I’m sorry that somebody has made you feel this way.
Rebekah Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 6:58 pm

I’m sure my comment will be terribly unique and not at all repetitive of what the other 30 kajillion commenters have said about this post but I’ll say it anyway – good for you. I think it is great that you nursed this baby and that you wrote about it. That’s all.

Oh, one more thing: wouldn’t it be lovely if mothers could be more supportive of and less critical with each other? You may not agree with what another mom may do, but how about just saying that?
lorrielink Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 7:13 pm

@ new (I assume) saddened anonymous= umm, so since she wasn’t “discreet” the other person should be able to blog about it untruthfully, but HBM should not feel bothered by the post at all? and also keep her mouth shut. on her own blog?? umm….

I am still loving all the “double think” going on with how the other blogger should be able to blog about it but how dare HBM do it cause she’s like popular and stuff. I mean, don’t you see the contradiction? at all?

if your wondering why breastfeeding discussions “go so badly” you might want to stop calling them nazis. just a thought.

HGM cetainly does not seem ashamed for what she did, why should she? she posted about it because of the rudeness on the other post. how can that not be clear. it has been stated more than once.

I’m pretty sure HBM has already had 15 minutes of fame. and falls right out of that category since she will certainly be having more minutes of fame in the future: that Warhol statement is meant for common people who normally don’t get any spot light at all. your referance doesn’t even apply to her.

about the “keep it private” remarks, wow. i. just. wiat i need to travel foward in time from the midwestern 50’s for a moment i just won’t start on that except to say that ..

i think it’s wonderful that we are so advanced now that there are people who have no idea that breastfeeding is an issue at all. i wish i’d been in on that, and the many many many other woman who have been ostracized from their families, friends, churches,etc., been asked by security guards to leave public museums, public pools, public PARKS for the vulgarity of breastfeeding thier child.
Stores made you use the bathroom-with your child!, multi-million dollar companies with thousands of employees were not required to give “pumping breaks” even to new mothers and they had to use the restroom at their own place of work.
woman have been forced off of airplanes before take-off by stewardesses for breastfeeding a newborn,
cps has been called many times on a mother nursing her child over 6 months.

it has only been about 6 short years since the American Pediatrics Association caught on finally and changed their official standing from 6 months only to at least a year and beyond.and it took years for most pediatric doctors to catch on to that.
even now, places like facebook will delete pictures of nursing mothers from their profiles even if there is NO BOOB SHOWING, but bikini-clad models with wet hard nipples are all over the place.
does every woman experiance these things? nope, have millions, yes.

so, you didnt know all that? thats great, it means maybe we are evolving, but you dont get to say “why are we so upset, theres no reason for it?”,because there is.

and that is why all the comments about bravery and courage are right on. because it is a risk, because it is a beacon for getting slammed. because people cant even keep on-topic with this. including me.
JB Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 7:35 pm

Found a fantastic website for nursing mothers..

http://www.breastpumpsexpress.com
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 7:57 pm

Again. Hung up on breastfeeding is not the case. Hung up on her sharing breastmilk isn’t even the case. The case was not even her blogging about it. She has a right to it also. However, having people call the other blogger names and saying she was closed minded because she observed it and commented badly on it is. /shrug

Last I checked there is a huge movement of mommies who feel like because the way they feel about breast milk is the gospel, they’ve taken up this cause to become very vocal about it. Fine. But don’t put others down because they don’t agree with you.

I don’t have a problem with women feeding in public if they have any sort of decency about it. But I shouldn’t have to explain to my 4 year old god son what a breast is and why that woman is showing hers in public.
Mamajama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:04 pm

fantastic comment lorrielink. I was trying to come up with an eloquent response, but yours was perfect!
Lara Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

I think you are outrageously awesome and brave – for doing this, and for posting about it.

And I’d really love to know what brand of bra you wear – it looks really comfy.

I’ve been reading your blog since I had my own baby 15 months ago, and I can’t thank you enough for your clever, insightful, brave and often confronting posts. I am a bad mother too, and it’s wonderful to know I’m not alone.

Lara in Australia
Ashley Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:26 pm

Coming back to respond to Karen who asked why this is courageous…

An act does not have to be courageous in itself in order for the person doing it to be courageous. Sitting on a bus seat is not a courageous act in itself. The social context sitting on the bus seat during Rosa Park’s time made her act courageous.

Similarly, relieving breast engorgement is not courageous in itself. Relieving engorgement in a society that will then make hundreds if not thousands of comments about it … well, that’s courage to me.
Scattered Mom Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:38 pm

I saw the twitter drama yesterday and came back today to see what the fuss was all about.

A few thoughts occurred to me:

1. I personally couldn’t/wouldn’t allow someone I just met breastfeed my child, nor could I breastfeed another woman’s child. Sure, I’ve never breastfed and so some people would say that I should just shut up then, but for me it’s something I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing. It’s a line of intimacy that I wouldn’t want to share with any children other then my own. Call me selfish, but that’s how I feel about it.

2. I find it interesting that commenters have said that the person who wrote about it should not have taken something she saw, that was none of her business, and then written a post on it and judged. Don’t bloggers do that fairly often? We write about our kid’s teachers or friend’s parents, we judge the lady in the Walmart with the screaming kids, our relatives, or celebrities we see on TV. Are any of us immune? Or is it just bad to do so when the person is well known on the Internet and can possibly find the post? Do we then censor we say?

In other words, had the incident happened in a McDonalds, with two people that nobody knew, would it be okay to write about it then? Or would it still have been considered judgmental and none of her business?

I’m not making a judgment here but instead a curious observation. My philosophy is to each their own. It’s an interesting topic, and certainly food for thought about being careful about what we post.

ALL the time.
Fairly Odd Mother Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:52 pm

You know, this was between two consenting adults who had a discussion and made an agreement. It’s not like you clubbed her over the head and then snuck the baby under the table to nurse. I’ve been engorged like that and it is miserable—she showed you an act of true kindness and friendship. I’m sorry some people can’t see that.
The Daily Blonde Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 8:53 pm

Scattered Mom:
You said this far better than I did. Point #2 is what I’m referring to. So, so true. We can talk about celebrities, people in the market, bad drivers and people in politics. We can bash them and they’ll never know. Or we can say great things and they’ll probably still never know. But bloggers are a special breed. Most I’ve met are some of the greatest people I’ve encountered. Then there are gossipy people who don’t want you to write about others but they want to gossip about it.

It’s a no win situation whatever we do. I will not change who I am for the sake of a few comments.

We need to be careful, yes…but we also need to feel free to be ourselves. ALL the time.
HollowSquirrel Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

Late to the drama and just catching up, but hope I’m not too late to tell you that I completely and utterly support you and Laura one hundred percent. Hugs.
Anonymous Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:22 pm

I loved your story, up until the point where someone else freaked out and apparently used exaggeration to stoke paranoia and fear in others. Sheesh. Thank you for sharing this with us.

If I’d been in your position, I would have been hesitant to accept the offer. Not because I personally find anything wrong with it, but because it goes against so much of our cultural training. I hate that my first reaction was discomfort. My deeper, final reaction is a combination of awe and happiness. I find myself thinking, “Yes! This is the world I want to live in.” In reading your story, the walls have already begun to crumble. Should I be in a similar position one of these days, the knee-jerk fear will already be weak and irrelevant, allowing me to move forward confidently (and possibly even bring others with me).

Hm, I think I started to ramble there. That happens sometimes, when I try to express transcendent emotion. Bottom line: Thank you for this.
Desiree Fawn Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:41 pm

Good for you I don't think this is wrong at all and you are SO RIGHT to stand up for yourself.
Kudos & love.
<3
Laura Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

I am so sorry that you experienced something so hurtful- honestly it was nobody’s place to judge you. I know I would have done this. I was nursing twins and my boobs might have exploded. I never really tried hand expression…I loved the hospital pump I rented. I carried that heavy beast with me all the time.
Candace Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

Wow. 480 comments already. Most controversial post ever?

Frankly, I am surprised at how controversial it is.

I personally might do as you did, though I doubt I would allow someone else to feed my baby if I did not know her EXTREMELY well and if I was right there, able to feed him. If you were my closest friend for years, and I couldn’t feed him at that time, I would have definitely done it.

You are now the Selma Hayek of the mom blogging world May your breasts be as spectacular and nourishing.
Lazy Daisy Marie Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 9:50 pm

Hi Catherine, Cheryl, and Commenters!

I’ve never read this blog til today and hadn’t the slightest idea who you (Catherine) were when I originally read TDB’s original post on the topic. And possibly because I don’t know you, I didn’t find it inflammatory at all. And, this was the first post of Cheryl’s I had ever read, so I wasn’t exactly batting for one team or the other.

I just reread TDB’s original post to make sure I wasn’t misremembering it, and still, I see absolutely nothing hateful or personal there. I think that most of this drama has risen from the comments of that original post, but I wouldn’t really blame Cheryl for that. Some people have strong reactions to the idea of breastsharing/babysharing. I do not believe any of the reactions were intended to shame you for choosing differently from what someone else would’ve done.

And, in rereading the OP at TDB, I found only one comment from Cheryl that could be taken personally, that “feeding a stranger’s baby is just a little nuts in my eyes”. Even if someone is looking to be offended and is personally identifying themselves with their choices/actions, the worst being said in that post would still only be “whoever does that must be nuts!”. . . and that’s seeking out the insult!

And even if someone had posted something as obviously deranged as “any woman who chooses to do x, y, or z with her boobs is bonkers”, who cares? If you know it’s not crazy, it’s not, and whatever so and so thinks, writes, or shouts through a megaphone doesn’t change that!

I don’t think Cheryl implied that you or Laura were blithe, irresponsible, deviant, or disgusting. I don’t believe Cheryl was disgusted with you and I don’t think disgust was flaunted. Yes, people said dumb things in the comments. People have said dumb things in these comments too. That’s not the blogger’s fault or responsibility and I’d hate it if all of us were held accountable for everything our commenters said. It seems clear that those people who said “what if the person had HIV” or “didn’t have the same standards of health as me” did not know who the original post was about, so it’s unnecessary to take those comments personally and be hurt by them. And it’s unnecessary for a mob of supporters from either side to gang up on the original poster because of what commenters have said.

What do those people know anyway? You can be sure that in your situation, with the information you possessed, you made a fine choice! But an observer does not have the information you had. Onlookers can just work with what they do have, and all Cheryl knew was that you and Laura had only met recently. And for some people, it doesn’t matter what was discussed or if she was nice and appeared healthy. For some, the fact that these two people met not long ago means this isn’t even close to the threshold of something they’d be okay with. And that’s fine.

The beautiful thing about understanding differences and agreeing to disagree is that just because I might not be okay with sharing my baby or my breast does not mean I’m not okay with a woman who is. And I direct that towards both original posters and the commenters on both posts.

… I guess coming by and singing KumBayYah would’ve been easier? Oops! =X …
Lazy Daisy Marie Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:05 pm

P.S. I’ve never been close to being in this situation myself, but I can’t imagine I’d breastfeed another’s baby for my own relief or that I’d offer my baby in the situation. Family? Probably. Close, long-time friends? Maybe. New friends? Eh, not so much.

Props to you all for being okay with your choices. The tough part is being okay with others’ choices too.

The only thing I found disturbing in this whole exchange was everyone’s cruelty and contention with one another. Live and let live.
lorrielink Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:09 pm

Again. Anonymous: HBM never had people call the other blogger names and say she was close minded because she observed it and commented bady on it. __ some of us did that on our own. some of us are just not as evolved as HBM, and im not sorry.

Again. Anonymous: last i checked this post and following comments have nothing to do with any “huge movement of mommies”: nobody here even knows what you’re talking about with that. if you have issues with some other “huge movement of mommies” then take issue with them. or better yet, just leave them alone, since you are obviously not interested in them, so there, now you can relax.

Again. Anonymous: yes, you should have to. we don’t care if you have a problem with it or not. its not about you. at. all.
you do not get to define decency. you are entitled to your opinion. we are entitled to our rights and our childrens’ rights. which i dare say are more important. no its not anyone elses problems what your hang-ups about why 4 year olds should not know about breastfeeding are. you are welcome to them, we have no right to say anything against you about your choices.
thats what this is really about; choices, freedom of choice, even uncomfortable ones we’re still not sure were the right one.

breasts can will and should be bared freely by nursing mothers (and maybe some others;)) who are sitting in a PUBLIC (as in, does not belong to you alone) area trying to hitch up her shirt and keep the undertank down over her tummy while holding squirming babe in the other hand while attempting to get that damn bra unlatched while keeping the pad in place with her other hand while watching out for dissaproving glances from total strangers who are doing not a damn thing to help her out.

@Mamajama don’t make me blush, no one has ever accused me of being eloquent. chronic foot in mouth girl, yes.

i don’t know this other woman or her blog or anything. i’ve certainly said some dumbass things in my life. not on a blog, but there is still time for that people that i have intentionally or unintentionally hurt certainly have a right to be vocal about it. by whatever means they have. how could you say they wouldn’t have a right to that? or maybe they shouldn’t if they have more friends than me? or more minutes on their phone? what’s the line to draw?

and since HBM has rightfully chosen to stop repeating herself for those not able to keep up with the point of this post.
it is not an issue of it having been blogged about: it IS an issue that the post by the other party was DELIBERATELY inflammatory and fanned the flames in the comments to said post and on twitter.
said original blogger EMAILED HBM to the truth of that.
only a few commenters here have openly flamed other blogger for that.
HBM posted her in HER OWN BLOG about her hurt FEELINGS about it. no one (logical) will say she has no right to do that in indirect response to other blogger.

sorry about using words like “us” an “we” so much. im not trying to represent everyone here. it just sounds more dramatic that way.

i don’t mind repeating myself. there are three penises in my house. i’m used to it.
crazymumma Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:09 pm

what people find is wrong is so astounding to me. don’t doubt the mutual decision you made with Laura.

you had milk. her baby got fed.

end of fucking story.
iMommy Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:14 pm

Wow, guess I was under a rock yesterday!

I just wanted to chime in, though the discussion is dying down, and say that this is a real tough subject, but an interesting one.

I breastfed my baby girls for about 6-8 weeks, each, and couldn’t continue. Because of that, I think I might have some personal issues around another mother breastfeeding my kids… mostly a jealousy/self-worth issue, I think. And since I didn’t breastfeed for long, I don’t know whether I would have been comfortable breastfeeding another child. I hardly had time to get comfortable feeding my own!

But in the end, I think that it’s a perfectly OK thing to do. It was Laura’s decision to let you breastfeed her daughter. It was your decision to accept her offer. Since neither of you are currently on trial for child neglect or abuse, I’m figuring you are at least halfway decent mothers, and have the best interest of your children at heart.

So if it made sense to you, then great! I hope that this discussion hasn’t tarnished your memory of that moment, because it was obviously a great moment for you.

And, cheers for keeping comments open here. That is the bravest thing of all, I think.
Me Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:21 pm

Just to throw another “what if” into the works: did you tell Laura you had recently been tattooed? Because milk donors, like blood donors, are discouraged from giving donations for 12 months following the tattoo, just in case.

I think I could nurse someone else’s child, and vice versa, but I also think I would have to know that person a lot better than a “just met” sort of knowledge. And the needle exposure thing…well, I’d certainly want to know about that.
I'm Anon 12:24 PM Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:26 pm

Still anonymous, but at least I’ve distinguished myself a bit.

Mamajama, I just reread my comment to Catherine four times, and at no point did I ever say that she should muzzle herself, or “tell her to take the criticism without giving any herself,” tacitly or openly. Where are you getting that from? I’m really trying hard to see it (and indeed, I read and reread my post quite a few times before posting to make sure my message was respectful and on point), and I’m confused as to how you got that from anything I said. Furthermore, I didn’t say anything about CATHERINE being snarky/bullying, but rather, that a lot of the people who have rallied around her have engaged in those activities. It’s just my impression, and it doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong. It’s just what I’ve observed as someone on the very fringes of this world. Can you please explain to me where you’re seeing that? Because if there’s anywhere you’re seeing that, I’d like to know, truly.

And Catherine, I do sincerely thank you for:(a) not taking issue with my comment (I hope!) and (b)writing such a detailed, thoughtful response. I only want to now clarify that I didn’t intend any part of my comment to say that you should stay quiet when hurt because you’re a popular blogger. No. That’s ludicrous. What I was trying to get at with that point was that when a big blogger says “Hey! Someone hurt me/pissed me off!” they HAVE to be cognizant of the ripple effect it has in the blogosphere, where a number of followers viciously (yes, viciously) attack the offending party. REGARDLESS of whether the offending party was wrong, two wrongs don’t make a right. That’s all I was saying about that. I’m NOT offering a solution (I don’t have one, really, other than that we should ALL be a little bit nicer, and as you said, think if we’d say to someone’s face the things we post in comments), and I’m NOT saying that you have to be silent when hurt; I was simply saying that I keep seeing this pattern repeated all over the blogosphere, and I was only trying to call your attention to it, here, since this situation went down.

Thanks again for listening, responding to my very real questions, and allowing dissenting commentary/overall thoughtful dialogue on this matter.
Michelle Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

the new girl said, “It’s just amazing how far we’ve all come (gone?) in just one generation. When my father was young, wet nursing was COMMON. It happened all the time.”

I generally object to these type of assertions for this reason: a generation ago children didn’t wear seatbelts. Were our parents right or wrong? After all, we’re talking about the same generation.

Historically wet-nursing was acceptable because of circumstances, not because people were educated about its safety. Anytime you have transmission of bodily fluids, there is cause for concern, or at the very least – caution.

I don’t believe this makes me “anti breastfeeding” either.

I can appreciate that you are a healthy nursing mother, but you are also a stranger who might have lied about her health, or even been unaware of a medical condition. Laura took a leap of faith that many wouldn’t have taken with their own child.

Does it mean she made the wrong decision? Only she can say for certain.

Regardless, I’m sorry that both you, and the person who opposed you, have had to deal with angry, flaming comments.
Stacy Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:06 pm

You know, I actually went and read the other post, and I think everyone reallllly overreacted. She didn’t personally attack you – it seems like MOM101 started most of the cattiness and turned it into something more involved than it needed to be. What you did was controversial. That means some people will disagree with it. To each his own goes both ways.
Secret Agent Mama Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:40 pm

I don’t know? but what if? what if we as a society did this more? what if it would make us all the more compassionate? I’m leaning towards it being so. It’s unfortunate to hear/read negative comments on something so perfect, so natural, so giving.

I think what you both did that day was compassionate and good. I’m in awe.
Heather Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:46 pm

I went and read TDP’s post too. Her description of what happened between two mothers was rather one dimensional, and engendered the kind of responses it received; not the thoughtful discussion TDP says she intended.
HBM has once again eloquently and articulately presented an interesting and complicated situation for all of us to think about and discuss respectfully.
Before today, I can honestly say that breastfeeding someone else’s child, or allowing another mother to bf my own child is something I never would have even considered. After reading all of this, though, I don’t know that my response would be so automatic.
Something about walking 1000 miles in another’s moccasins……
Cheryl Lage Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:47 pm

Hey Catherine–
Let me start by saying I was very happy to have met both you and Laura this past weekend. I found you both to be lovely women, committed to your children and extremely thoughtful in expressing your views. (I’ve read your blog for a while, and you had some very kind word and ideas for me.)

While I don’t know that I’d have offered my breast to another baby or my babies to another’s breast, (and as a mom who breastfed twins, I’m quite familiar with the pain of engorgement!), the decision was absolutely yours to make.

I also had the chance to meet the other blogger…who also seems to be equally lovely, committed to her children and thoughtful in expressing her views. Reading the post she initially put up, I didn’t get the condemnation, so much as curiosity…
questioning…
and a seemingly genuine interest in feedback. It IS an interesting topic for 21st century westernized mothers…breastfeeding supporters included.

Here’s hoping this episode helps us all work toward supporting all mothers’ perspectives…regardless of their coincidence with our own.

Glad to have met you, to have met Laura, and to have met the blogger whose post spurred this one. (and am ever-so glad I missed the Twitter aspect of it…)

Wishing you peace and happy parenting—keep in touch–
A Lawyer Mom's Musings Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

Alright. I’ll go ahead and add comment # 1,000,000. My son was born at 4lb. 13 oz. Small. By C. Per doc instructions, I walked and walked the halls. Went by the nursery. There was a tiny baby in there, just my son’s size. His dad was loooking at her through the glass. “Where’s Mom?” I asked. “Oh,” he said, “she’s in a coma. Hasn’t even held her yet and she’s two weeks old.”

So I bit my lip hard so I wouldn’t cry and said to him, please, please let me nurse her. “Oh, no mam, that’s okay. She’s getting fed. They’re giving her formula,” he said (he clearly didn’t understand). “But breast milk is better for her, especially at her size. I’d really like to,” I said.

It was pure instinct, and pure normal. I still wonder about that little tiny girl whose mom hadn’t held her yet. And cry, of course. The hormones never go away.
Suzanne Said,

March 11, 2009 @ 11:55 pm

I came over from Imaginary Binky.

As I read your story, I am appalled that something so wonderful for two mothers and one child has been reduced to words like ‘dirty’ ‘diseased’ ‘drug addict’ and ‘immoral’.

Hearty BRAVA to Laura, for seeing your need and her child’s and creating a bonding moment between mothers. Don’t we need more moments like this? Isn’t this what “it takes a village” all about?

I’m sorry that you were villified for being in pain and taking the solution offered. Shame on the blogger who feels that this is something dirty to disparage.
Ann of Green Cables Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 12:40 am

You and your friend did no wrong. I know you don’t me to tell you this. It’s for others who will say differently. There used to be a perfectly accepted position of ‘Wetnurse’. That is what you did when you nursed her baby. ( I loved nursing my 4 babies) WetNurse..an honourable job/lifestyle and accepted as such. People should just MYOB. If Nosey Noras have that much time on their hands to gossip about you, they should put their time to better use and actually help people who are in dire straits….no money for food, shelter, clothing, etc., instead of sitting on their fat A**es writing harmfull crap! So, this Gra’ma sends you both a big hug and a wish for all the best in life.
squishsplash Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 1:26 am

You did good. Proud of you. If only there were more of it!
Bianka Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 3:32 am

Wow, TONS of comments already on this one! I’m sorry some people have trouble expressing their opinions without being mean. I like to call those people.. not so smart.

As for my take on the matter, I would have no problem what so ever nursing someone else’s baby. I see nothing wrong with that, because you know, I know where my boobs have been and I know what I’ve put into my body. On the other hand, I’d have a hard time letting someone else nurse my baby for the same reasons.. I don’t know what the other person has been doing.

Bravo to you for nourishing a child! Bravo to Laura for trusting you!
Anonymous Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 3:49 am

Forgive me for not reading through all of the comments to see if someone has already posted about this, but did you know Salma Hayek very publicly breastfed an infant that was not her own child on a trip to Sierra Leone last month? I think people responded very positively to it. Isn't it interesting how the same behavior provokes different reactions when it is done by a celebrity vs. a non-celebrity? Here's a link to the story in case you missed it: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Story?id=6854285&page=1
AimeeRosie Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 5:45 am

Good for you!
Belle Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 6:06 am

Your comment policy on this issue amuses me. Who decides on the difference between ‘opinion’ and ‘damning moral judgement’? Do you have a panel, or is it just you? You met a woman at a conference. You had coffee with her and you had a ‘discussion’ with her about breastfeeding and health issues. Just so that I’m clear on this – she was NOT a stranger to you for these reasons? So you breastfed this woman’s baby. I have no problem with that whatsoever. It was your call. I just would never have done it myself. As for trust and community. I would trust people at face-value with many things, but NEVER the welfare of my children.

6:03 AM
BGC Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 7:56 am

Laura’s baby was a year old, right? At one year old, my son was eating dog food off the floor and possum poo. I don’t see how breastmilk from a stranger could be worse than that.

Seriously, I thought that your post was a lovely heartwarming story. I have a breastfeeding friend with a baby – toddler now – the same age as mine and always wondered if we could share. I’m not sure I would be completely comfortable with it, but I certainly don’t think it would be wrong.
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 9:11 am

Belle – who decides the difference between opinion and damning moral judgment here? Me. My space. My rules. I’m under no obligation to permit anyone to say whatever they want here, none at all.

And, I’m not trying to justify anything. Just telling my story. Something was written about me that was inaccurate, and a comments thread was *encouraged* – and fed by the author, who actively supported the commenters – to speculate about the degree of disgustingness of what happened (the author even dropped in comments implying that I might have been drunk). Borderline defamatory.

Readers and friends brought it to my attention, and I responded. Why is this so extraordinary and amusing?
Anonymous Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 10:16 am

I, in an emergency, nursed another woman’s baby. Her husband dropped the baby at my door as they were on the way to the hospital (she had broken her leg). The father said to me…. Sam might be hungry…. Could you nurse him if necessary. At the time my still nursing son was one. Sure enough the baby got hungry…. I nursed him (he was only two months old and had never had anything else). It felt perfectly natural…but not the same as nursing my own.

I wonder what the objectors would think of this true story. I met a woman who had lost her baby immediately after birth. An adoptive baby came available within weeks. She put the adopted baby to the breast and there was milk. She nursed that baby for two years. The baby was not biologically hers…yet she nursed her and raised her as her own. She told me that it felt perfectly natural and she felt blessed to be able to feed her adopted daughter.
Jessica Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 10:54 am

I applaud your action, your courage and your honesty. Most of all, I applaud your willingness to moderate this important discussion.
Katie Kat Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 12:08 pm

I do want to chime in to say that I think Anon 12:24 has a very valid point regarding the “pack mentality” and the viciousness shown for anyone who might disagree with Catherine.

I found out about this whole thing through Twitter, and there were definitely comments left there that would make people who wanted to share a differing opinion think twice about it lest they be flamed, or worse. This included a comment from one person who said if anyone messed with HBM they would “drop an f’ing bomb on them.” I respect the person who wrote that and her loyalty to someone she truly cares about, but it does send a rather harsh message to people who might feel a lot more like Anon 12:24 and who aren’t willing to risk the fallout (hence using “Anonymous”).

Anyway, I just think it’s something to think about. As a very popular blogger, your actions DO become public “fodder” if you will for discussion and criticism. It’s why I think all bloggers such as you are so brave and so valuable. I just think it’s important to keep in mind that if you choose to do something controversial (which I think you knew it was after reading your comment that 2 weeks ago you weren’t sure you would have done it) and then comment on it in your blog, you might want to call off the dogs just a touch to allow your real message to be heard without too much catty rehtoric getting in the way.

Still and all, I think this is fascinating and I have learned a lot by reading your account of it!
Her Bad Mother Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

Katie Kat – I’m still sorting out my thoughts about my responsibilities as a quote-unquote popular blogger. I feel badly about the fire-and-brimstone that hailed upon the other blogger’s head. But it still feels weird, the idea that I need to ‘call off my dogs’ – people act of their own accord – and apart from what was being said here, I had no idea what was said to her/about her, because I was avoiding her comment and twitter streams to protect my own feelings.

But – full disclosure – I did know that there was a backlash going on, and I knew that it was because, in part, I’m liked and respected and that some of that backlash had little to do with the debate and much to do with people taking sides and that it was probably hurtful to her, and I feel badly that I wasn’t quicker in saying publicly that I wanted people to be nice to each other.

So, yeah, I’m conflicted. And feeling badly, and a bit guilty, and still trying to sort out my feelings.
paperfairies Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

HBM, I’ve been really thinking about this, hard, because I am convinced certain topics illicit these reactions for reasons that are culturally complex and fascinating. Can I share? Thanks.

I am positive that aside from the possible health issues involved in cross nursing there is FOR SURE a bigger societal stigma with breasts and sexuality than there is danger. The past five decades have skewed reality sexualizing what is created by nature to nurture, nothing else. The reason men are instinctively attracted to large breasts is the subconscious thought that “those boobies will feed my offspring so it will thrive.”

Even though milksharing happens in certain cultures it usually stems from need, if not necessary, moms just feed their own. (we know all about how maternal milk is formulated specifically for one’s baby) I think what swayed your decision stemmed from the need to relieve your pain.

If it is true that you would let your baby feed off another mom, then that means you are willing to accept the risks however negligible they are. You in your heart don’t believe it is dangerous, no more than any other daily activity. But, what made you question whether you would do what you did (before you did it) is that very societal stigma. Heck, even the medical community advises against it, so you pause, and think because you can make decisions for your son and for yourself based on your belief but not for someone else. I think that is why in your post you had to say that you tried expressing, you couldn’t find a pump, you looked into every venue before doing “the deed”.

Ultimately if this served to reaffirm your belief it goes to show that those cultural standpoints are sometimes worthy of a big ol’ “suck it”.
Perky Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 12:57 pm

First off, let’s get my basic bio out of the way, shall we???? I was adopted and my children are adopted. My brother was adopted. Many of my friends have adopted and most of the rest bottle-fed.

Therefore, I have precious little experience with breast-feeding. I readily admit that I KNOW NOTHING!!!!

Accordingly, I have very few opinions on whether what you did was “right”, “wrong”, “icky”, “brave”, or anything else.

So why am I posting????? Simply this — I agree with you 100%! It’s your boobs, your milk and her child.

WHO CARES WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS ABOUT IT OR WHETHER THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING?

You helped a new friend, relieved your pain, and fed a hungry child – those are all good things in my book.

Those other people who are freaking out need to chill out and worry about the things in life that are within their control!

Would I have done what you did? Who knows. BUT, I’m SURE I wouldn’t have gotten up in your face about it!
Katie Kat Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

Oh, and one last comment! I truly believe the overall most important thing about this entire situation is that you and the other mother TALKED AND AGREED about it. Therefore (IMO) the only thing people really have a right to comment on is the public venue or their feelings about the subject. As you have said many times here, the way in which it was done and the resulting vitriol was not only unnecessary, but hurtful to both of you as well as to all women and the idea of furthering our knowledge about the subject. Sometimes we are out own worst enemies!
Liz Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 1:35 pm

I’m loving the conversation about breast feeding other people’s children and I’m loving the learning and sharing of experiences this has brought out.

I’m totally not getting the moral outrage–by you (Catherine) or a lot of commenters on both “sides.”

Someone disagreed with you breast feeding another person’s child, blogged about it and had people who regularly follow her blog agree with her?

SHOCKING.

Come on.

I mean, hey, I get that it stings to be talked about (especially by people who don’t know you), but that’s sort of what you open yourself up to when blogging/twittering/whatevering in this day and age, no?

I very much appreciated your post describing the experience, it was something I never really thought about before (just reactively thought, “Nah, not for me.”) Now I’m thinking more critically about it and I appreciate that (a lot of your writing does that, so thanks!).

But to react at all to the other person’s blog post? Eh. Whatever. She wrote about it. She wanted to talk about it. It was basically a hypothetical. Why react at all? You believe in your actions enough that you don’t have to defend them, right? The thin skin argument falls a little short when you clearly put yourself out there as a woman-centered, feminist mom (which I shout BRAVA to, by the way.)

And the “gang” mentality is unimpressive. “Followers” are a scary thing to have I think.

Thanks for sharing, though, I think the best part of this shitstorm is the thinking it’s made a lot of people do.

Sincerely,
Liz
Mamajama Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 1:41 pm

Hi Anonymous from yesterday, I just reread both of our comments, and I guess I don’t know what you were asking Catherine to do if you weren’t saying that as a powerful blogger she shouldn’t have called attention to the fact that she was criticized and that it hurt. I simplified that by calling it taking crit without giving any. Because I think that’s basically what it amounts to.

I don’t think that because Catherine is a more popular blogger that she should have to eat extra crap. It’s hard enough being a Mom and having all the usual criticism.

I wasn’t saying that you called her snarky, I just pointed out that she wasn’t. I also wanted you to realize that she doesn’t really have control about what her readers do with the information. Some want to fight for her honor, some want to tear the other lady down, some get mean and nasty, some start a good discussion. I was just saying it’s the nature of this medium, and blaming HBM for people getting mad at the other lady doesn’t make much sense to me.

I kind of think that the whole thing is pretty fair game. I think the original blogger had a right to post on the topic she did…I haven’t read the original post, but HBM felt it was an unfair portrayal. I think she has every right to post her own side. She’s an honest blogger, and that’s why so many of us love to read her.

I hope it’s more clear to you now what I was trying to convey. I did appreciate the tone of your post. It was so much more respectful that most of the other Anonymous posters.
e-mommie A.K.A Iliana Zúñiga Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 2:30 pm

I think you and Laura are just awesome women
Sara Said,

March 12, 2009 @ 2:43 pm

I may be a bit blase about the possibility of viral infection… But isn’t there a standard regimen of blood tests that mom gets while pregnant including the HIV test, syphillis, and a bunch of other tests for the things that pass through mom’s milk?

One mom mentioned Epstein Barr as a reason not to allow another mom to breastfeed her baby. Epstein Barr does not pass through breast milk, nor does the herpes virus. A baby is more likely to be exposed to Epstein Barr by being held than by being breastfed. What DOES pass through breastmilk is EB antibodies.

The screening tests mom has to get in order to donate milk are simply: HTLV, HIV, Syphillis, and Hepatitis.

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They Shoot Wet Nurses, Don’t They?

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