Ephemera
In the last year of my parents’ marriage, my dad had an affair. I’ve always known this, my mom has always known this, it was something that we all talked about, in later years: his regret, his remorse, over this thing he had done, its effect on my mother, its effect on our family, the fact that it led to a divorce that nobody wanted and that everybody regretted and that remained the great tragedy (and yet in some ways the great gift; this is a complicated story among many complicated stories, best left for another day) of both my parents’ lives.
He had an affair, and we knew it. But the fact that we knew it, and that we knew he regretted it, did not lessen the emotional blow of finding letters from this woman among his things.
It was my mother who found them, of course. I found the innocuous things, and the bizarre things, the wonderful things – the pipe cleaners, the stash of pot, the robot – yes, the robot – and some terrible things – the suicide note from fifteen years ago, the agonized letters to my sister and I apologizing for his imagined failures as a father – but it was my mother who found these, these love notes from another time and another place, these pages that my father would have least wanted her to see of all his pages, all the pages of his story. We cried together, she and I, after she found them. We cried, and then I said all the right things about how that had been such a brief period, such a blip in a much longer history, and, too, how depressed he had been, what a mistake it was, how he had said so, how he had insisted so, and as I spoke it seemed to me – me, so spooked these days – that the very air rippled with tension and I wondered whether I was saying the right things, the truthful things. Had it been nothing? Had it just been a relationship borne out of his depression, a symptom of other problems, of deeper issues that had nothing to do with love? Or had it been more, something more, even for a moment?
Later, we found pictures of this woman. He had wrapped them in multiples layers of packing paper, and taped them up, tightly, and shoved them in a plastic shopping bag and stashed it at the back of his closet, under a bundle of old clothes, hidden, as though he couldn’t bear to be reminded of them, as though he very much wanted to forget them, but couldn’t bear to throw them away. My mother didn’t look at them. She turned away and said, trash them. Toss them in the dumpster. Trash them. And then she left the room.
I wrapped them back up in their paper and put them back in the shopping bag and tucked them back in the closet. I will trash them later, I thought. With the letters that I had stashed in my pocket. Later.
Later never came.
The pictures are still stashed in that bag, in the closet. I’ve been working around them, packing things away, taking things to Goodwill, sifting and sorting through the stuff of my father’s life. I’ve been working around them, pretending that they aren’t there, because I don’t know what to do with them. Do I throw them away? I can understand totally my mother’s desire that they be thrown away. I would desire that they be thrown away, if I were my mother, if it were the love of my life who had received such letters and retained the pictures of their author. I do desire that they be thrown away, or at least, that childish part of me that wishes to deny that part of my father’s history desires that they be thrown away. But therein is the rub: now that my father is gone (so suddenly gone, so absolutely gone), I recoil at the idea of denying any part of his history, any thing – any word, any image – that forms any part of the history that made him him. I don’t know whether or not he loved that woman. In a way, it doesn’t matter whether or not he loved her. She was part of his life for a short time and for whatever reason he chose to not erase her memory, entirely. So I feel – I think – that I should not erase her memory. For whatever reason. For whatever it’s worth.
So I have these pictures, and these letters, and I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to keep them, but it feels wrong, somehow, to just throw them away.
I have these pictures, and these letters, and I don’t know what to do.
(What would you do?)
Posted by Her Bad Mother on September 1, 2009
Filed under: Dad, Uncategorized, bad grandma, depression, fearless
Tags: infidelity, love
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."What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." (Nietzsche, Aphorism 153, Beyond Good And Evil.) Not, unfortunately, beyond Dora dolls that shout 'WE DID IT!' when you step on them, but you learn to cope with that.
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Sep 1, 2009
What a tough question. Do you know if the woman is still alive? I might mail the items to her anonymously, if possible, since they’re a part of her history too. You wouldn’t be destroying them, but you wouldn’t have to keep them, either.
steff Reply:
September 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
i like your suggestion, amy. it might be just the right way to get rid of something without actually having to be responsible for throwing those memories into the trash.
Her Bad Mother Reply:
September 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I’ve thought about that. I’ve thought about that a LOT. Don’t know that I have the nerve, though. Also, my mom’s already hurt that I’ve hung on to them this long – she might explode if I made any contact with this woman.
Sep 1, 2009
I’d keep them. I don’t even know why.
Sep 1, 2009
Just a thought. Had a similar but different situation, but was able to find some semblence of peace with this suggestion. Find a friend. Any friend close you. (maybe, close to your dad. Don’t think it matters.) What helps is if it is someone you trust completely. Someone whose judgment you trust completely. Explain all the above and more. And then give the letters and the photos to them. Let them know it is your heart felt desire for them to do what they think is best with them. And then tell them you don’t want to know what they decide. Ever. True friends get it. They know that the whole of you wants to honor the whole of your dad. But the whole of you also includes you the child daughter. Hoping peaceful moments for you as you go through this. So very sorry.
Sep 1, 2009
I think I would throw them away, but then again, I tend to be overly pragmatic.
Your dad is gone (I’m so very, very sorry for you tremendous loss), but your mom is still here, still living, trying to live on past this awful thing that has happened, and it hurts her tremendously that these mementos are still around.
You cannot possibly keep everything that ever meant something to your father. If it were me, I’d do exactly as you have done: tuck them away until I was ready, but then I would try to find a way to lay them to rest.
Wishing you peace…
Sep 1, 2009
For whatever reason, he kept them. Whether it was that he put them away and forgot, or held on to them on purpose – he didn’t throw them away. And I wouldn’t be able to do it either. The fact that he still had them would force me to find a little box, fill it with the letters and photos, and hide it in the back of my OWN closet… hopefully to never remember again.
Kay´s last blog ..Back to School… and other randomness
Sep 1, 2009
The only use those letters and pictures hold for you is for torturing yourself with. I suggest getting them out of your possession, however you choose to do it.
Mac & Cheese´s last blog ..Working Holiday 2009
Sep 1, 2009
If I were there, I’d throw them out for you in a second.
Marinka´s last blog ..Here We Go Again
Sep 1, 2009
I had similar issues when I lost each of the people I’ve lost. It’s not necessarily about the specifics of the item, save that they were important to the person I loved and therefore it didn’t feel like it was my place to toss them. Maybe I’d regret it, later. Maybe I’d hate myself for sending away something that had meaning, whatever the meaning is.
So I kept. I kept “silly” things and sentimental things and mundane things. There’s no harm in keeping, but may be hurt in not. As time passed, I realized some things could be let go. Things that, it turned out, didn’t resonate with me in a way that kept a memory alive. Things that I knew resonated with them and they’d regret I’d not respected that. It takes me years, and many times of going through things and resorting and re-evaluating, to whittle it all down. That’s alright, though. Time, I have. Space, I have. Regrets, I also have, but not as many had I not done things this way. It worked for me.
I wish you peace.
Sep 1, 2009
I’d keep them… because I’m like that. Those bits and pieces of a life lived — for better or worse — are the things I cannot let go of in my own life.
But I’d also feel compelled to find her, either to give her the letters/photos, or to at least tell her the news and connect with her in some way. For me, it would help tell his story, that part of his past, if I could lay eyes on her and talk to her. Part of me, I think, would want new stories and different perspectives from a person who once knew him.
Sep 1, 2009
I’d chuck ‘em. I can’t imagine my Dad wanting me to have letters and pictures from his regretted affair.
Sep 1, 2009
I suspect I will be in a similar situation myself someday.
I guess you have to ask yourself what your father would want. Would he have wanted you to find them? To deal with this?
If you decide to dispose of them, maybe you could still do that in a way that honours your father’s spirit and the part of his life that these things represent. When religious artifacts need to be destroyed or gotten rid of, that removal is surrounded by ritual – usually a fire or burial. Burning or burying these things is thought to be respectful for the function they have preformed, and the lives that they have touched, and the spirit that they still represent. Maybe doing something like that could be healing.
Whatever you decide to do, you have my empathy.
Sep 1, 2009
I would toss them. For my Mother’s sake. Because she asked.
Nancy´s last blog ..Always take a big bite, it’s such a gorgeous sight
Sep 1, 2009
Okay, you know they have to go, but you’re not ready yet, and that’s okay. So pack them up in a box, seal it and mark it “To be destroyed – September 2010″. Stash it in the back of YOUR closet, or somewhere that your Mom will NEVER see. Because it would hurt her that you kept it all. And then, next year or the next time you do a big clean up for a garage sale, when you’re ready, you can dispose of it.
I’m so sorry for your loss. My Dad died suddenly this past winter and I understand what you’re going through. I’ve been grasping at every thing to keep and remember him with.
You’re still shell-shocked, please give yourself some time. I’m glad you posted, I’ve been worried about you.
Sep 1, 2009
Honestly, I would throw them away. Quickly, without giving it too much thought.
In the long run, I don’t think you would regret it.
That woman was part of his story, but his story is not the same as your story. For whatever their relationship was, good or bad (probably mostly bad?), it is over and in the past. And hopefully she has moved on to live a happier, better life. But the point is, hopefully she moved on, and so why shouldn’t you?
But that is just what I would do.
Sincerest condolences for the loss of your father.
Sep 1, 2009
First: my deepest, sincerest condolences…
Now–which do you think you would regret more: holding on to them or throwing them out? If there’s no clear answer right now (as I imagine there won’t be, what with everything you have to deal with right now), then I second Sheri Bheri’s advice. Box ‘em up, stash ‘em somewhere & dispose of them later. I also liked Ari’s suggestion that they be burned, not just throw away, but that’s just me.
When my ex-fiance died, I hung on to every shred of every item of his that I could because it was all I had. As time passed, I was able to go through things again & pick out the things that meant the most to ME, that gave me the best memories of him…it’s the good memories that give me the most comfort, obviously, so later (once my mind had cleared some) the decisions of what to keep & what to get rid of were much easier to make.
Wishing you peace…
Sep 1, 2009
For now, I would keep them. Throwing them away cannot be undone. When the time is right, you will know…know what to do. And your decision to keep them or not will be right for you. As long as there is ambivalence without a sure knowing, wait. Sometimes even when the sureness comes, there is still ambivalence. That’s okay. What we wait for is the knowing.
That’s what I’d do.
Wanda´s last blog ..great and noble things
Sep 1, 2009
My vote is to throw away it will only cause you more grief to have them and or read them. Goodness only knows why he kept them but all of this is a valuable lesson to us all about skeletons and closets and what not to leave around. Just another difficult decision at this most difficult time. Hugs
habanerogal´s last blog ..Week One Quit Smoking Report in Smellovision
Sep 1, 2009
Chuck them. Keeping them only pokes at an old scar and makes it hurt.
Bill
Bill McNutt´s last blog ..Nerd Alert! Nerd Alert!
Sep 1, 2009
When people go, I think honoring their memory is completely unrelated to keeping their personal possessions, particularly if this possession is the one tangible remnant of their life’s greatest regret. You should keep what ties him to YOU, and the great love you had for each other. You cannot hold on to the thousands of things that make a person’s history. When my loved ones have passed, I try to go on with them inside me, not all around, in things.
Cat, much, much love to you. You are an amazing, strong woman; thank you for sharing.
Jo´s last blog ..Towers
Sep 1, 2009
Maybe put together a box of his things that you don’t want to keep but can’t manage to throw away and bury it. Like a hope box or a time capsule or something? Bury it for him, since he obviously wasn’t able too. It is honoring that piece of him, but it’s not like you have to hold onto the stuff. That’s what I would do, I believe.
Have kept you in my thoughts. Tons of hugs Catherine.
Issa´s last blog ..Because Heather sent you here
Sep 1, 2009
KEEP THEM,, keep them rolled up and taped up and packed away and hidden. Someday you might want to look at them OR someday you might have the courage to discard them… but certainly NOT NOW…
Sep 1, 2009
I’d throw them away, immediately.
Sep 1, 2009
Please let us know when you figure out what to do. I have a guest room full of mementos from a very bad year of death. I can barely get the door open.
MOAM´s last blog ..Educate this, b*tch
Sep 1, 2009
I’d consider finding her to send them to her… but I’d probably just keep them somewhere my mom wouldn’t come across them until I had some unexpected clarity regarding my feelings towards them.
I don’t know, though. Sorry for all you’re having to deal with. Hugs.
Sarah´s last blog ..Word-Less Wednesday
Her Bad Mother Reply:
September 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Well, my mom saw this post, and is hurting from it already, so. Am now damned either way.
Sep 1, 2009
When my father died, it was also sudden and he was also alone. He had lived alone for years. I kept his papers, all the ones I managed to rescue from my mother’s purging, anyway. Including the bits that were painful. They live in an old pizza pop box under my bed.
That was 16 years ago. I have found it helpful to have this material. It’s allowed me to make peace with the truth in a very real way. I was much younger when my father died, not quite 17, and estranged. Facing the good and the bad has given me a freedom that has really helped me.
I would keep the photos and notes, and the other things, but I wouldn’t tell my mother. And then I would give myself the gift of time in deciding their ultimate fate.
Amber´s last blog ..I Hope She Learned Her Lesson
Sep 1, 2009
I’d either keep them (till I was ready to discard, if ever) or return them to their original owner (if she’s reachable). And not that you can keep this secret as your mother reads your blog, but if at all possible, I’d aim to have her think that they are gone.
K-Line´s last blog ..Achilles Heel
Sep 1, 2009
I’m the type of person who wouldn’t be able to let go of those things, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. But (there’s always a but, right?). But I also wouldn’t want those particular mementos hanging around, anywhere in the universe, knowing that they caused my mother pain.
I’m so terribly sorry for your loss.
Emily´s last blog ..Ah yes, I remember it well!
Sep 1, 2009
Yes, the ’so absolutely’ gone: I am so sorry for your loss.
I think about the suddenness of his leaving and I consider your stashing these pictures away and your mother suddenly finding them in your possession, for whatever reason she may come upon them. Even the smallest chance exists, which makes it too great, I think.
For your mother, I would honor her wishes. But, before you do, sit with them, write about them, stare at them, do what you want, but let them go.
Again, my heart goes out to you and your family.
Marian´s last blog ..Waiting.
Sep 1, 2009
I agree with the first comment. If you know where to find her, I would mail them to her.
That’s such a tough situation. I have no idea how I would handle that really….but I’d like to think I wouldn’t throw them away and try to send them to her.
Michelle´s last blog ..♥Meeting The Teacher
Sep 1, 2009
First, I am so, so sorry for your loss.
I would probably throw them away, simply because the only person for whom they held any meaning, whatever that meaning was, is gone. Perhaps he held onto them out of some sense of obligation…? Regardless, they were his. His letters. His photos. His regrets. Not yours. I would let them go.
Arkie Mama´s last blog ..Arkie Mama: Third-baby lust
Sep 1, 2009
I would throw them away as your mother asked.
Sep 1, 2009
I have sorted through the belongings of 2 people I loved very much in the last five years. I can imagine you are exhausted, At times, I was completely overwhelmed by the process, mix that with the exhaustion and it was a place I do not want to return to anytime soon. Both of these deaths were also unexpected so no part of their lives had been “packed away” so to speak. We saw everything, some things we were not meant to see.
Anyway. after pondering this for some time … if I were you mother – I would also soak them in gasoline and send them on their way in a blazing inferno. I understand your desire not to part with anything that reminds you of your father – good, bad or ugly. It does not matter what my father will have done at the time of his passing – he is my dad and my hero. I would not be able to forget, to rest or to stop obsessing should I, as a daughter, keep these things in my possession. I would see them through wall, in the box I stashed them away in – they would be ever present in my mind. I too, would try and send them to that woman (no return address of course) or send them out to sea in a milk carton boat, because that is something that my dad and I did together, but we would light ours on fire and watch them burn out in the night.
Sep 1, 2009
I was in a similar situation going through my grandfather’s things. He had letters, pictures, and mementos in a trunk at him mother’s house of a time when he was in the military in Korea, and Japan. My mother was a baby then and at home in the states with my Grandmother who never suspected anything. I realized that this was going to open up a very painful and unnecessary wound. I threw it all away and never told anyone! The secret will die with me.
Sep 1, 2009
Catherine,
I am a stalker of your blog and sorry to hear of your Dad’s death. My Dad had an affair for 25 years with the same woman. (He’s still married to my mother for the past 56 years) I also found love letters that she wrote to him that he left in the glove compartment of his car. Unfortunately, my mother was in the car with me and snatched them from my hands before I could stop it. It was just one more reminder to her of the horrible wound he inflicted on her. As an adult, I asked my dad if he loved “the other woman” and he said he did. He also told me that he never felt he and my mother were meant to be together and had it not been for my mother threatening to take my siblings and I away and never allow him to see us again he would have left her for the other woman.
Over the years my mother has continued to express her hurt and how “nobody ever came to my defense.” I took the position that while I was hurt by the knowledge I had, this was not my problem to solve and their marriage was between them. They are now 85 years old and dependent on each other for many things. My mom is bitter and unforgiving and my dad just wants to be forgiven.
If you feel there is value in the letters and it will give you insight and closure then you should keep them. I am haunted by the fact my Dad loved another woman all these years and I don’t know what it was he loved about her.
Sep 1, 2009
This sounds so very difficult, and I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with it. Your hesitency to get rid of those things makes sense to me. From this point on, you get to decide your father’s history. If you throw those things away, it’s like it never happened since he’s not around to insist that it did. He wanted that memory around, no matter how hidden away, for a reason, so it makes sense that you don’t want to get rid of it altogether, either. Perhaps just to keep it as a reminder of how fragile our lives are?
Georgia´s last blog ..The End of the Drumming Stage
Sep 1, 2009
One more thought. These bring pain to your Mother, and she is still here. Your Father is beyond pain now. For that reason alone I would destroy them. If she ever for some reason figured out they still existed it would cause her so much pain, and she doesn’t deserve that.
Sep 1, 2009
I would keep them.
I would keep them because your Dad kept them.
I would keep them until the day came when you thought about them, dug them out and threw them away.
I still have my dead ex-husbands artificial leg in my garage. Why? Because it was part of him.
Weird.
Her Bad Mother Reply:
September 11th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I also kept his false teeth, and some of his hair. I know.
Sep 1, 2009
I sat here for awhile and thought about what I would do with them. My initial response was that I would keep them because they represent a part of your father’s life. But after much more contemplation I think perhaps it would be better to get rid of them. It will be difficult to do but what benefit can those pictures and letters be to anyone? They can only bring heartache to anyone who seems them now. I think if it were me I would burn them.
Marilyn (MBels)´s last blog ..La-ville Lumiere: Wish I Was There
Sep 1, 2009
Before you even got to asking what others would do, my thought was, “Send them to that woman.” Then you won’t have to keep them/emotionally torture yourself for the remainder of your lifetime but you won’t have to live with disposing of them either.
Sep 1, 2009
I don’t know if someone has already said this, but what if you bury them? In a way, perhaps it would allow you to say goodbye to that part of his life as well.
That was my first (and gut reaction) response.
I really am (me, this stranger type person to you) sending thoughts and prayers your way. I know this so incredibly hard.
Mrs Chaos´s last blog ..Top 10 Reasons Why I Am a CRAZED Mess
Sep 1, 2009
During the process of preparing to leave my husband, I happened to see an episode of Dr. Phil about woman who were holding on to the MEMORY or their former marriage, by either still wearing their wedding rings, wearing them occasionally, or keeping them in a jewelry box and looking at them from time to time.
He said something that struck me very hard. Their marriages were not all bad, there were some good memories. But they were bad enough that a divorce occured. Keeping those rings was nothing but a reminder of bad memories and events and would only remind them of bad memories and events whenever they looked at them.
I decided right then and there that as soon as my divorce was final I was going to sell my rings to the pawn shop. I used the money strictly for eating out, so that I wouldn’t have anything in my house that was bought with the money.
I say throw them away. In a dumpster. Far away.
I will also say, that your Mom was the one who was married to him, and the decision should be hers because she was the one who was cheated on. She trusted you to throw them away, and that’s exactly what you should do. Imagine if you’d asked someone to throw them away and they didn’t?
Trash em!
Sep 1, 2009
I like Irreverent Mamma’s comment about finding a friend to do what they will with them. What other purpose can those letters and photos serve than to cause more harm, unless they’re thrown away?
Grizzly Kitteh´s last blog ..The beatings will continue until moral improves
Sep 1, 2009
I would send them to the woman. Whatever it was, it was theirs together.
Sep 1, 2009
I am very sorry for your loss, and how it has impacted your family. If easily possible, I would find the woman and send them to her, with a brief note. If it’s not easy to find her, I would put them in a box and store them away in your house, to be evaluated later (since you are ambivalent about it). It seems that the affair was a tragic mistake, and that your father regretted it. I don’t think it is a valuable memory of your father; you probably have many other things to activate the wonderful memories of him and the times that you shared. If you are not so ambivalent now, just throw them out. I don’t think they represent the father that you love.
Sep 1, 2009
i would look, and then let them go. i would look to witness, because he kept them, and because the voyeur in me would want to be able to visualize that part of a story i could not UN-know. and i would let them go because there is nothing in them to keep except whatever piece they add to the story that YOU carry of that time in his life, of your picture of your father.
Bon´s last blog ..two crow joy
Sep 1, 2009
I would keep them.
I’ve been following this sad story from the beginning, though I’ve never commented before, but I feel a strange connection to you based on this story. My father died when I was 19 and, afterwards, we were left to deal with a life he had lived before my family existed. He had been married before; had had a son; and he never talked about these things. My mother had always known, but it was something he never discussed. He was sad about it, almost ashamed.
My mom doesn’t want to acknowledge his previous life. But when we found the paperwork from that life – divorce papers, pictures, his son’s birth certificate, etc. – I couldn’t throw it away. It was, for better or worse, part of my dad. But I was 19 and didn’t know what to do with it. So I just kept it.
Now I’m glad I have it. And I am fairly certain that I’ve found the brother my dad never talked about. I’m still not sure what to do with that information, but I’m glad it’s there, if I need it.
Obviously the things from this woman are very different from things that relate to a brother I didn’t know I have, but I think the urge to keep because he kept them is the same.
Catherine´s last blog ..Constant Cravings
Sep 1, 2009
I would think it be hard for Emilia to find those letters, should anything happen to you.
So if you decide not to get rid of them, perhaps tuck them away with a copy of this so she knows how you felt the day you bundled them up and put them in your closet?
daysgoby´s last blog ..my first ten speed was named scout and had a bell
Sep 2, 2009
My mother and father seemed so together until it was discovered that she had been harboring an affair for 12 years. They divorced and it was then discovered that my father had a lover for the last eight years. Something was missing. She was missing something, he was missing something. I became estranged from my father, but my mother finally talked about their relationship. I would use the letters to learn about relationships. Lessons to be learned and passed along to your children about respect and caring and love – not the letters, but your insight into their lives.
Sep 2, 2009
Oh my dear, the tears. Flowing from my eyes at this very moment because I have been there- somewhere near there. Only I was your mother and I wanted it gone. All gone.
But then, he is still alive and we are still married and so it is very different.
Sep 2, 2009
I wouldn’t give them to the woman. They don’t belong to her. Throw them away. While all memories are important that one is painful and there is no reason to keep a physical reminder around.
Lauren´s last blog ..I don’t think you’re ready for this jelly.
Sep 2, 2009
If he so openly regretted the descision he made, it may be the just reason he still had them. He may not have forgiven himself and kept them as a reminder of the guilt. It may have seemed easier to him to sweep it under the rug, per say, and deal with it when he was ready. I honestly don’t think your father put any thought into the fact that someone (you, or your mother for that matter) would be finding these things he had hidden. If such thoughts ever crossed his mind, then he would have gotten rid of it himself knowing the emotional wounds would be reopened.
Even after all the comments made to your blog you will never truely know the real reason he kept them…..does that part really matter? You need to figure out the meaning these items will have for you and then you will figure out the answer of your keeping them. Good luck!!
Sep 2, 2009
Throwing away the clothes your father left in his closet isn’t denying the memories you have of him wearing them, and throwing away these letters and pictures isn’t denying the piece of his history that they represent.
Sep 2, 2009
I had a similar situation come up with a relative who passed away once.
We tossed the photos and the letters. In the end, we decided together that the relative would not have wanted us to keep anything that would tarnish or blemish our memory of the better times with them. So we made an effort to contact the individual who had written the letters in case they wanted to hang on to them, which they did not, and then we tossed them.
I have never regretted it, not for a minute.
Sarah @ BecomingSarah.com´s last blog ..gDiapers! (my unsolicited review)
Sep 2, 2009
You don’t have to get rid of them right now, but you should get rid of them. How will you feel in 10 years when your daughter accidently discovers them and wants to know what they are? Do you want to share this information with her? If not, then you have to get rid of them at some point. (and if you want her to know, that’s okay, too…only you can decide what you want her to know about this whole situation.)
mamalang´s last blog ..I’ve been to a Swedish wonderland and a circus today
Sep 2, 2009
Those would be the sort of things I’d wrap up and stash away in my own home – somewhere I wouldn’t see them unless I wanted to – somewhere they could stay until I was ready to get rid of them or find them a new home. It might not sound logical, and keeping them might make you feel guilt, too, but time does heal…
Colleen – Mommy Always Wins´s last blog ..Camping: nature’s way of promoting the motel industry.
Sep 2, 2009
I don’t really have an answer, it’s a tough question, but something to consider: if they are in your possession when something happens to you one day, be it sooner or later, who will go through your things and find them, and what will they in turn make of them? if it might be your mother, it could feel to her like betrayal, I would imagine. Just a factor to think on as you work it out.
kittenpie´s last blog ..I’ve Heard of Nightingale Dropping Cream, but…
Sep 2, 2009
if you decide to be rid of them, i have found that burning stuff such as this has a cleansing and healing effect when the time is right.
when i went through my parents house after my mom died (where we still live) i found there were times when i just couldn’t deal with what was in front of me- so i would close up the box or drawer or closet and move on. the next time, sometimes it would be ok, sometimes not. nearly nine years later there are still a few drawers etc that remain untouched, but mostly, i’ve been able to heal through the majority of it. and do with it what needed to be done.
peace to you as you journey through this.
pnuts mama´s last blog ..pnuts_mama: i have decided that today needs a do-over. aaand: done.
Sep 2, 2009
Keep em, and don’t ever look at them again. Keep them forever if you need to, or one day, throw them out when you feel you can. Even the wonderful reminders can cause pain.
kgirl´s last blog ..Top Ten Tuesday
Sep 2, 2009
Keep them. Who knows. Getting rid of them is one of those things you can’t undo and I hate regrets.
sue´s last blog ..Thank goodness my mom brought over some kleenex
Sep 2, 2009
In the basement of my parents’ house, I have a Rubbermaid box full of the detritus of my first marriage: the wedding album, the letters, a few other things I couldn’t bring myself to throw away. In ten years I’ve never felt the need to open that box, but it feels more right for that box to be there than for that painful episode of my life simply to be thrown in the garbage.
bea´s last blog ..Weird
Sep 2, 2009
Keep them with the letters until you are ready and then burn them all. Assuming this is okay with your mom. If it’s not, chuck them all right now.
Sep 2, 2009
I’ve sort of been in your mom’s shoes–as much as a 20 year old who has lost the love of her short life can stand in your mom’s shoes. We had been broken up for over a year, but his parents invited me to go with them to clean out his apartment. We found several notes and pictures from several different girls.
I don’t know why I was able to laugh about it. Perhaps because I could tell myself that these were all girls he dated since we broke up (not the truth); perhaps it was the absurdity of a receipt for a “pastel rainbow” cummerbund and tuxedo rental indicating he’d been willing to accompany somebody to the prom. I kept the things that were personal to our relationship and let the rest go.
Keep whatever feels right and don’t worry about propriety. Grief is a long, strange road, and I’m all for you having every available navigation tool at your disposal.
Mandee´s last blog ..Miss Connie
Sep 2, 2009
Ages ago, someone wise, very wise I know now, told me, in FRENCH, a saying that goes like this: “Sometimes the burden of marriage is so heavy it takes three to carry it.”
Your father is now speechless, his voice is gone, and by throwing all that away, you silence him further. It’s a part of his history, his story and who knows, one day you may find yourself in such a situation: Falling in love lust need with someone and not knowing why OR watching someone else try to heal themselves with another love lust need OR who knows.
Your mother is very much alive and has her view, her voice, her say and it’s all overlayed with her anger and betrayal. Justified I can’t say really for there is no way to know the full and total details of their marriage or lives.
Yet, all of us wish and want to be known and if you love your father, he would want you to know, to understand and love him anyway. How would you feel if it was your mother that had the affair? It’s sad the affair caused a divorce no one wanted, I know several couples that got through an affair and went on to be happy again.
You will have to be brave, the temptation to bowdlerise his life is strong. Now you can learn to know your father as a person too. You have made comments on his tendency to stay silent and hide away, maybe there are tons of reasons why this man chose to live like this but here, he’s trying to speak and let people close, warts and all!
Good luck,
Jae
Sep 2, 2009
I think you should bury them.
Have a small ”ceremony” for them, in a park, or anywhere that you feel is right, or righter than other places. Lay that part of history to rest, and give that part of his life the respect it deserves. Because while the other woman doesn’t necessarily deserve respect, and the affair doesn’t, it WAS part of his life, your life, your family’s life. Part of history. And I think by laying it to rest, with dignity, might help you heal.
Sep 2, 2009
They were part of his history…maybe not the nicest part…but a part of it anyway!
I think you need to keep them and in time you’ll know what to do with them.
The answer will come to you…it always does!
Mommy X´s last blog ..X Rated
Sep 2, 2009
I would keep them …
My Mom just died and parting with anything is very painful for me right now. I cried when I had to get rid of her clothes and shoes…
I decided to hold on to the rest of the things till I knew what to do with them and it didn’t hurt so much anymore.
Kim´s last blog ..We Will Remember – Project 2996
Sep 2, 2009
This isn’t the same, but I am keeping the pictures of my first, deep love. They’re mixed in with the pictures of freshman year in college, but they’re there. Someday I’ll talk to my kids about him and what I learned and how I felt. Sharing my history may help them. And as you know, it’s part of me.
Sep 2, 2009
Closure is an often over-used word, but in this case, I do not think you will find that sense of peace believing you have some sort of obligation to give those letters and photos a second thought. She may have meant something to him, but that has nothing to do with you. Simply throw them out and move on.
Theresa´s last blog ..WARNING: This Post Contains Serious Self-Doubt
Sep 2, 2009
I just lost my absolutely adored, beloved grandfather, who helped raise me, yesterday, and I am headed up to his funeral tomorrow. I am in that same raw emotional place of ‘everything means so much when there won’t be anything else of him’. So I totally understand what you’re dealing with. Hell I can’t even stand to wash the shirt I was wearing when I last saw my grandfather alive.
Even so I am going to give you this as my advice, for whatever it’s worth. I would pack up the letters and photos and anything else that is private or questionable (anything he wouldn’t want the grandkids to see someday for example.) I would hold onto it somewhere like my attic for a year, without opening it again. And on the anniversary of his death, after dark, all by myself, I would quietly burn it all and use it as an opportunity to talk to him and tell him how you’re doing and feeling since he’s been gone. It would be a fitting, respectful, and private way to honor his memory and acknowledge what were, for him, obviously very difficult emotions.
Good luck with this, I am so, so sorry for your pain.
Sep 3, 2009
They should probably be thrown away at some point-but who’s to say when that is? You will know when the time is right, you will know when it’s time to let go of that part of his life. Still thinking of you and praying for you!
Rhonda´s last blog ..Sorry for the wait M’am!
Sep 3, 2009
I’d burn them in some sort of ritual, letting all of that energy be released. Throwing them away feels very impersonal. Burning them in ritual is a way of honoring your father–all parts of who he was–while honoring your mother’s wishes.
lynn @ human, being´s last blog ..Wordless Wednesday: Prophylactic
Sep 3, 2009
It sounds like he was torn with the same indecision about what to do with the items and for whatever reason he held onto them. It seems like he was he was tormented by it all even though he hung onto those things which he himself treated like he was ashamed of but hung onto nonetheless. Maybe he lacked the strength to let go of it–but needed someone to help free him from it. He has passed, the affair has passed. He is being buried (or cremated) and grieved. Maybe read through the things (like in the movie Bridges of Madison County) to answer anything you may have been craving to have answer–to give you peace. If it will help you heal by going through the things, then do so. Otherwise, I fully support disposing of these items which seem to symbolize soooo much pain for the survivors–and even for your dad himself. Symbolically destroying this evidence might help put the whole thing at rest and help him rest in peace….
Sep 3, 2009
If I could get in touch with the woman, I might send them to her, otherwise, I would throw them out. Where would I even keep such a thing? If an object is not going to be used, looked at, enjoyed, then what is its purpose? A pile of letters and photos that would make me feel sad every time I stumbled across them in their box in the basement? I would say my life would be better off without them. Keep the things that make you feel happy. Find something that makes you smile when you think of your dad, and find a place in your home where you will see it often. Throw away the rest.
Sep 3, 2009
I have not read all 73 comments so, if this is repetitive, I apologize.
How amazing that you are sharing such a grief with us and that you ask what we would do. The mere question at a time when I am not sure I would be functional has me compelled to respond.
Being the wife in a similar situation to your mother, and having a daughter who may someday learn about the volcano that almost ended my marriage, I wonder what I would want her to do.
My first response – which usually holds more truth for me than if I over analyze – was to look at them, read them, embrace this part of your Dad, your Mom and their relationship, its rippling effect on the rest- then give them up to the universe in a blessedly small bonfire.
Ashes to ashes…much love and peace to you, your Mom and your whole family – including your Dad.
Sep 3, 2009
I would keep them. There is a world of discovery in those letters… a discovery of your Dad from an entirely new/different perspective, from the heart and hands of someone who saw a piece of your Dad’s soul from her eyes. There may come a time when these letters and photos mean something to you, and to throw them away ends every possibility of this. Your Dad kept them, and I guess I think that this knowledge is enough. They MEANT something to someone who means so much to you.
Sep 4, 2009
I would burn them.
(If everyone kept all the stuff of his parents – how big will the pile be after three generations?…)
Sep 4, 2009
Ugh. So difficult. I would try to hear the voice of my dad in my head and heart, and hear what he would want. I tend to believe that he’s in a place that is pretty much shed of earthly material connections, but never shed of his connection to his loved ones. The letters? What would he say? Maybe he’d want to protect your mom’s interest at this point, I don’t know. Maybe you could hear him say to you, “Cathy, all I care about is…” Fill in the blank. Anyway, I’m sending love to you now, in this decision, and all others.
Sep 4, 2009
I’m way behind on reading right now, but I wanted to just stop by and say that I am so sorry for your loss. Hugs.
I have no idea what I would do with the letters. The ritualistic burning idea is an interesting one. Or maybe just bury them. Literally.
Pando´s last blog ..Sometimes you just have to do it.
Sep 4, 2009
My brother died unexpectedly last year and I don’t think that death means that we are entitled to know all of a person’s secrets. If it was clear that a person did not mean for something to be seen, then I think out of respect for the deceased, you dispose of it.
Sep 4, 2009
i’d keep them for now, somewhere out of the way and decide later. why do you have to decide now? for some reason you don’t feel you should/can toss them so don’t. take some pressure off yourself and just put them somewhere..deal with that later.
Sep 5, 2009
I would keep them, I’m not sure why but I think there’s something there about honoring a person – even their mistakes. I don’t think we truly live without making a lot of mistakes…
Sep 6, 2009
I would make an art piece out of them. Keep them and have this piece of my father’s history, but in a form that others wouldn’t recognize or become offended by them. A secret that you share with yourself.
sara´s last blog ..World Travels…Vintage Hatbox
Sep 6, 2009
Going through my mother’s stuff after her death was healing and heartbreaking. Watching her things leave (taken by family members, donated or thrown out) was painful. I think some of it was thrown out too soon, but ultimately I feel that the stuff of hers was just that. Stuff. Her journals and pictures of HER, or the scrapbooks she created have meaning to me. The rest is simply stuff. Some of it is meaningful (jewelry given to her or that she wore often) or comforting (such as letters or cards she sent to me) but none of it fills the whole left be her death.
Take your time to decide what to do with it, but I think I’d throw it out. As others said it may have been a part of his story but the meaning of it creates pain for you. Keep the best of your father, honor the rest, but don’t hold onto stuff that causes you pain.
Sep 6, 2009
I have no idea what I would do with them…none at all. I…I don’t know. I guess I would do the same thing to them that I had done with the other important pieces of his life, the other letters and memory things. Perhaps I would store them in a box, along with those other things, and put it somewhere…out of site, but still there?
But I don’t know, because I can’t know…because I’m not in that situation?
I’m not very helpful
Sarcastica´s last blog ..I Is Kreativ
Sep 6, 2009
I would keep them. I would try to find her and send her them, without a note. If I couldn’t find her easily (too much effort to find her would make me feel like I needed some kind of response from her and getting that involved with her would not be good for my mental health), I would probably study them for a few weeks and them burn them. Or throw them away. I wouldn’t want my children to find them someday, without me to answer their questions for them.
Jenna´s last blog ..The good, the bad and the….. you know.
Sep 6, 2009
Good grief, what does one DO? I’d toss them, but then lie awake at night wondering about them and the fact that only my eyes had seen them and I’d be recounting to people in later years all about the details of the photos.
Yeesh, there’s really no good answer is there? Sucky all around.
Sep 8, 2009
Is that woman still around? Or is there any contact information for her?? Sending them to her may be a good compromise… you’re not throwing any part of his history away, just giving it to someone who would be tortured less by it. All of the other options (throwing away or keeping yourself) are too hard… although I feel like I would throw away. You don’t know till you’re in that situation though…
Sep 8, 2009
hi catherine i’m sorry about your dad.i would put them in my own closet and when i KNEW what i had to do with them then i would take the action neccessary…..
Sep 8, 2009
Ditto Lavendula. My dad died 14 yrs ago and my Mom is in the late stages of dementia. I’ve spent the last five years cleaning out their home of 40 yrs until I’m down to just 4 bins that I can’t bare to part with. Keep the photos/letters for now. There may come a time when you’re ready to throw them away, but keep them for now.
So sorry for your unexpected loss. Be kind to yourself.
Sep 8, 2009
I would, as with anything I hesitate throwing out even though I know I should, bite down hard and pitch them in a place from which I cannot retrieve them— like ripping off a band aid. Done, anything else seems too rife with pain.
Amanda´s last blog ..Is that you?
Sep 8, 2009
throw them out – keeping them is a dis-service to your mother and a betrayal of your mother. she asked you to throw them out and you should. ask yourself this – if she found them and found out you did not toss them, how would you feel?
Sep 9, 2009
I don’t know if you’ve made your decision yet, but I wouldn’t throw them away. I’d maybe keep them secret still, but I do believe it is part of his story. I just think about my own life and things NO ONE else could possibly know, but just because they are hidden doesn’t make them part of me. And I guess it wouldn’t matter what happens to stuff after we’re gone, but if you wanted to hang on to him and his story, I would hang on to those things, too.
Steph
Sep 10, 2009
I have a very similar situation- I once asked my dad if I had any half-siblings I didn’t know about- awkward family conversation for sure. I think, like you, it is hard to get rid of it if it was part of him. I wouldn’t be able to help trying to find her. But throwing something away is so permanent, while tucking it away leaves options. Good thoughts your way.
@marymac´s last blog ..Putting the Labor in Labor Day
Sep 10, 2009
I would get rid of them. But I am not much for holding onto others’ photos (photos taken by and owned by other people).
Confession I have never shared (thus the ‘anon’ bit): When my frail elderly dad collapsed and I cleaned out his place, I found polaroids he had taken of my mom in the early years of their marriage … innocent photos, many with us children in them (”family photos?”) but all of them photos that involved my mom in various stages of deshabille. Imagine a mom stepping out of the shower, for example, her young kids rushing over toward her as she reached for a towel.
I had known these photos existed, I knew my mother had not wanted them snapped, I had not known he still had them (nor, indeed, that they still existed) literally decades after my parents’ divorce. Except for knowing that my mother hadn’t wanted them taken (a big except), they captured lovely, fond memories of my early childhood. In the end, I mentioned them to no one. Not my mother — why dig this up again? Not my brother (ditto, more or less, though he is younger and I’m not 100% sure he knew about these pictures’ existence), not anyone, and I threw them away. Into the “shred it” bin at work. It saddened me on one level but on another seemed the right thing to do.
Sep 10, 2009
Burn or bury them.
liz´s last blog ..Joy
Sep 11, 2009
I would keep them because I am a strange creature that has a tendency to keep even the most hurtful of things.
Amanda of Shamelessly Sassy´s last blog ..I Don’t Want my Armpit to Smell like a Tropical Breeze.
Sep 11, 2009
I am sorry for your loss and for the confusion and strife it has brought, thank you for sharing your struggle. I can’t and wouldn’t even begin to try to help out here, it is obvious to me at least through your writing that you have an answer and it is clouded with pain right now and it will come to you and it will never seem like the right answer because seriously it wasn’t the right answer for your Dad and so when your head and your heart are not knotted so tight that even breathing is hard, it will come to you and you will do what you decide is best. I commend you for your naked truth stories and appreciate the freedom you give all of your readers to feel their own pain by reading yours. I will have you in my thoughts and prayers.
Sincerely,
Stephanie
Sep 11, 2009
One of the greatest pains of leaving a marriage that ended with my husband’s infidelity was knowing that one day my son would piece it all together, would have to deal with the aftermath of an affair that I had already (hopefully) long moved forward from.
I ached for him. I still do. It pains me that his father chose to pursue a bright, shiny, new relationship rather than give any effort whatsoever to the family he already had. His father. His role model. His protector.
I am not sure that my wounds from being cheated on will ever completely heal. I am OK with that. I am happier now, my life is fuller and healthier. Yet and still, whenever the curiosity rises about *her*, I remind myself that it was really about *him*, about the husband and father who turned his back on the people who loved him most.
So that is what I offer to you…Your father’s affair was not about the woman in the picture. I understand the curiosity and maybe even the thread of connection to your father, who I am so sorry is no longer walking this planet with you. But really, all that history is just about your dad.
You don’t need a picture to hold on to that connection or pain or heartache or questions or curiosity or love or any of it. If I was your girlfriend, I would tell you to look and then let it go.
It’s your dad you want to hold on to. Not her.
Jessica Ashley (Sassafrass)´s last blog ..Apparently, my son has ice skating moves
Sep 13, 2009
I can actually answer this due to having had to make such a decision: I tossed them. They weren’t love letters from an ex, but love letters from my dad to my mother; obsessive, narcissistic, sexual letters from a young man to his lady love.
The letters were evidence of the bad man he was going to become, so that decision was fairly easy.
I got hitched up on what to do with his baby teeth and lock of baby hair so carefully preserved by his mother in an envelope. These were from when he was an innocent baby and it crushed me to the core that there was no one on this planet that wanted these things and that I was crumpled on my floor sobbing over these tiny little items in my palm.
I ultimately decided to keep a few things from my father’s boxes that represented the boy he was, before he ever committed horrible acts on those I loved, lik a futuristic drawing of a car and the like.
I’m truly sorry that you’re having to do this thing, but I am also somewhat envious of the obvious love you felt for and shared with your father. It’s never easy filing through the papers of someone’s life.
If you have a minute, I wrote about going through my dad’s boxes here. From one paper sifter to another…
Hang in there, lady…
Jessica´s last blog ..It’s the little things about social media that I love
Sep 14, 2009
If you must keep them, scan them. Scan them into a document and throw the physical letters out. Then they will not be there for anyone else to find but you.
Sep 15, 2009
[...] A friend called me, last week, after I’d written about struggling through the process of sorting through some of my father’s papers. [...]
Sep 16, 2009
I think your mother’s feelings are far more important than those items. Now that you’ve read them and you know and have a better understanding, I don’t see any reason to keep them.
My mom had a letter her mother had given her before she died in a sealed envelope marked for my, aunt, my grandmothers daughter in law. It was to be given to her upon Grannie’s death. My mom knew hurtful things were in that letter as my aunt always treated my grandmother badly. When my grandmother died, my mom opened the letter, read it and promptly shredded it. Because the hurt it would have caused was too great. But she knew and understood more.
These letters are just things. You knew your dad. He will always be the memories you have of him. But if things are causing someone great pain,
I’d be rid of them in an instant.
Bari´s last blog ..Flips, Tees & Me Getting Carried Away